Question for 12-String Gurus about 12-String Guitar Tuning

Cougar

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I'm thinking of buying a 12-string guitar in 2022, no rush. This is new territory for me - I have only played 6-string guitars in the past. As I research I am hearing that owners of 12-string guitars (especially old Gibsons) sometimes tune them down to D to reduce tension on the neck. Is this necessary with Guild 12-strings? Is it helpful to extend life of the guitar and avoid neck resets?
I guess some tune down, but apparently most players here do not, including me.

Now, alternate tuning is a whole other question, and a big one.

But mainly, any Guild 12-string is going to be a sonic adventure. Personally, I just love the Guild jumbos. You can't beat a Guild jumbo. JF30-12 was my first Guild. FABulous guitar.

jib800.jpg
 

7GuildsandanSG

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I recently bought a 1977 F-112 that had been sitting in it's case with decaying strings for most of its life. I keep it tuned 1 step down just for singing and when I'm not playing it it's in it's case with a humidifier. Neck is still perfect.
 

Tom O

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I tune down two steps if I have 12 s on it. Leo Kottke tunes down two or three steps to get the sound he likes and uses 13s. He wants to sound like a piano not a mandolin. Only put 9s on my old Yamaha FG-260.
 

chazmo

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I don't believe this is correct. When I had my F612 restored by Guild at the New Hartford factory, I was assured by Charlie (who had worked for Guild since the Westerly years) that the F612 was designed to withstand standard tuning. He did a fantastic restoration job, and I have kept the guitar tuned to standard for at least the last 8 years (with .10s), with no problems whatsoever.

I imagine John Denver's decision to tune down and capo up had more to do with the scale length/playability of the guitar. Or perhaps he preferred higher gauge strings.
That's great, awagner! I'll always be jealous of your restored F-612 here. :) :) Yeah, it's true, JD's preferences may have had nothing to do with with the F-612's construction itself.

Honestly, though, aw, I would worry about that extra scale length though... I think that extra inch is putting quite a bit more strain on the bridge and the neck block than the standard scale. I can't remember whether it was Charlie or some of the other guys in New Hartford who I spoke to had mentioned that they thought the F-612 was more prone to failure because of this or not... I think at one point they had Jay Pilzer's in the shop as well and it was undergoing some reconstruction. Can't remember the deets, though.
 

Nuuska

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I can imagine how 612 w 14 gauge strings tuned 4-5 semitones down would indeed sound like a church. Think John Fahey used that expression. I use often some serious gauge strings on my F512 and tune it way down - in open tunings - just love that sound.

Tom O - I really like that " He wants to sound like a piano not a mandolin. " 🎹
 
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awagner

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Honestly, though, aw, I would worry about that extra scale length though... I think that extra inch is putting quite a bit more strain on the bridge and the neck block than the standard scale.
There's no question that tuning up to standard will likely hasten the need for a neck reset on any 12 string, particularly a longs scale like the F612, but I'm ok with that. I think 12 strings sound better when not capoed and I mostly play in standard tuning, so that's what I do.
 

Brucebubs

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Small tip you might find useful when re-stringing your 12er.

Leave the skinny octave G string till very last - tune up all the other 11 strings first.

I came up with idea after doing a string change on a Taylor 355 one day - I know, much thinner neck than a Guild 12 - started my string change by slackening off the thickest E and octave E and suddenly the octave G just snapped! - reckoned the change in tension on the neck was just enough to make that thin string break - put that theory in reverse - bringing the other 11 strings up to tension first creates a stable neck for the octave G.

Costs nothing to try - I've never broken an octave G again.

Wa3lG0Fl.jpg
 

West R Lee

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Makes perfect sense to me. When I stop and think about it, I've broken a G string more than any other while restringing, and that's on my 6 string guitars.

West
 

chazmo

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So, Bruce, great idea on the G-string, but the real question is do you spend more time playing the Martin Grand J12-40E or that red-wine Guild F-412? :)
 

GGJaguar

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do you spend more time playing the Martin Grand J12-40E or that red-wine Guild F-412?
I can't speak for Bruce, but I spend more time playing my Martin Grand J12-40E than my F-412. Still, the 412 absolutely has its place and is magnificent. They have totally different sounds.
 

GGJaguar

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Leave the skinny octave G string till very last
I always substitute a .009 for the .008 that comes with most sets of 12-string acoustic 10 gauge strings. Makes for a very noticeable difference in sound (less "plinky") and tuning (more stable).
 

Brucebubs

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So, Bruce, great idea on the G-string, but the real question is do you spend more time playing the Martin Grand J12-40E or that red-wine Guild F-412? :)
chazmo - the Martin was truly magnificent but I decided to sell it earlier this year - I was just babying it, leaving it in it's case under my bed so I decided to let someone else enjoy it. It sold very quickly for slightly more than I bought it for. I still have my F-412, it is loud and beautifully balanced but that Martin had a wonderful warm depth I may miss and regret selling one day ... but if I do then I think I'll search out a F-512.

The Acoustic Centre in Melbourne , Australia did an absolutely marvelous job selling these 3 guitars on consignment for me - extremely professional - here's some of their pictures of my guitars they sold from their site listing.

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Martin Grand J12-40E Special
Martin JDP II
Huss & Dalton MJ Custom
 
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12 string

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Some of us tune our 12s down because it brings out the signature sound of the instrument. The tension stays about the same because you increase gauge as you tune down. I wrote about this a long time ago.

 

Rayk

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I tune them any which way the mood fits up or down or in open tunings which is my main stay .

Other 12’s before my Guild I never had any issues with those guitars either . Especially my old fg312 Yamaha that guitar that took a beating ! Never had a case for it either I’d just strap it to my motorcycle or toss in the bed of my little pickup truck . It got rained on abused by the Florida ocean and heat them up to NC with its roller coaster weather temps . Lol
I can’t remember if I had it when I left NY but I think I did ???
 

Rickenmaxer

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My '99 JF30-12 is my go-to strummer. Nothing sounds as rich or clear, and, despite the battle scars and lacquer checking it had when I got it, it's rock solid at concert pitch. I love a Guild maple jumbo (obviously, that's her New Hartford F50 cousin below), and I've never had an issue with the ergonomics. I am a long-limbed tall guy, so your mileage may vary, as they say.

I'd love to find a nice D25-12 to mix things up. (Did Guild ever do a D25M/mahogany-top 12-string?)

JF30-12&F50pair.jpg
 

mavuser

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the mahogany top dread 12 strings are D-15-12, D-17-12 (and possibly a D-16-12?). they are basically the same as a D-25-12 (other than spruce vs mahogany top). differnt bindings and the D-15 is "satin" not high gloss
 
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chazmo

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I believe there was a GAD version of a D-25-12, rickenmaxer, which was really good, if I'm remembering correctly. That would've been all-mahogany (and was a solid flat-back, not arched). Again, I'm not sure I'm remembering entirely right, but that's my recollection. And, I'm 99% sure mav is right that there was no all-mahogany D-25-12.
 
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