Do you like the Novak Bisonic for your Starfire bass?

In the Starfire bass of any iteration, does the Novak Bisonic sound better/more kick/more powerful than the stock N.S. Bisonic and/or the vintage Bisonic?
Did you get yours wound humbucker (he does that)?
Thanks for the info.
Trying to get my Starfire more high powered and responsive.

I look forward to answers. I don't recall much about swaps/upgrades involving a NS Bisonics and the vintage installations I recall were Hammon's Dark Stars, not Novak's PUs.

Have you, or anyone else, played with pot values in the NS?

Yes.
1. I once used a 1MEG tone pot (I forgot the cap. Probly .045uf?, .022 ?)- I did not not get alot of change when sweeping the tone knob with the 1MEG. Sounded like it had a smaller sweep area on the spectrum and towards the brighter side. It wasn;t very useful as a tone knob that way. Like it didn't make alot of tonal difference from 0-10.
Went back to 500kv/500k/tone like stock until I tried:

2. 500k volume/Guitar 16 tonestyler. Sounds great. Massive spectrum of dark to bright with nice instrument throat changes per click. But the bass still has innate under-responsiveness and lack of power with all three harnesses (including stock) tried. I asked Novak if his Bisonic will help with this. Will report back.

I mean , by itself, the Starfire sounds fine. But not as powerful and responsive as my LPBass/Pbass/4003.
But the Starfire is a more mellow instrument I believe anyway. Nothing wrong with it.

a Hagstrom Bisonic is hotter than a Hammon Dark Star. your Newark St. pickup is a reissue of the Hammon Dark Star.

I'll have to get a reading when I get it back and see what kohms it is.

lungimsam said:

But the bass still has innate under-responsiveness and lack of power with all three harnesses (including stock) tried. I asked Novak if his Bisonic will help with this. Will report back.

I mean , by itself, the Starfire sounds fine. But not as powerful and responsive as my LPBass/Pbass/4003.
But the Starfire is a more mellow instrument I believe anyway. Nothing wrong with it.

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I don't understand "under-responsiveness and lack of power". I don't doubt that you hear something, or don't. I'm just not sure what. Passive vs. active? High vs. low impedance? Potential dynamic range? If you "freeze" all of the controls including the amp, what can you accomplish with just your fingers (or pick)?

I get less reaction/response from the strings per level of effort when plucked as compared to my other basses. Not talking about tone or sound quality. Talking about level of and quickness of the attack of the bark per fingerstroke effort. Not as efficient at producing string sound as the others.

All my basses are passive.
Turning up the volume or changing pickup/pole piece height doesn't change it.
Same string sets on all the basses.
Two have hi-z humbuckers and the third has the Pbass split coil.
I even installed one of the hi-z humbuckers onto the Starfire and still get same result.
So perhaps it is a structural issue since it is the only semi hollow.

I don't think anything is wrong with the bass I would just like to pull more out of it.

lungimsam said:

I get less reaction/response from the strings per level of effort when plucked as compared to my other basses. Not talking about tone or sound quality. Talking about level of and quickness of the attack of the bark per fingerstroke effort. Not as efficient at producing string sound as the others.

All my basses are passive.
Turning up the volume or changing pickup/pole piece height doesn't change it.
Same string sets on all the basses.
Two have hi-z humbuckers and the third has the Pbass split coil.
I even installed one of the hi-z humbuckers onto the Starfire and still get same result.
So perhaps it is a structural issue since it is the only semi hollow.

I don't think anything is wrong with the bass I would just like to pull more out of it.

Click to expand...

We're getting closer. Some players talk about "digging in". They get something more from the bass. I can't quite define it but I think I get a sense of what you are missing. I tend to have a light touch but I recall a couple of comments. First is that if you dig in a lot or play with a heavy touch you need a higher action. That may be because you don't want to have the string hit the pickup or something else but it has been mentioned. Second is a recommendation for a long scale, i.e. 34". There is more string and more opportunity for it to travel.

I would consider raising the action on the Starfire and seeing what happens.

I would try another short scale, if possible, and see if there is a similar lack.

If you can get access to another hollowbody, try it.

If you are motivated I would pretend I was a slapper looking for a new bass. The buying advice should say things about solid vs. hollow, scale length and setup. If it is good advice for slap then it might help for mere digging in.

Pro Tip - don't try and slap on any Guild with the traditional bridge. There are stories about saddles flying off the bridge and saddles splitting.

It's a long shot but string tension might be a factor. If you have high tension string try and find a set of low tension string or visa versa.

Thanks for the ideas, frono!
I will try to raise the action. I have a very light fretting hand and a very heavy plucking hand. Odd combo.
I have another 30.5” shortie (the Gibson LP) that has great response. Mahog body and maple neck mix.
I had a 30.5” Gibson SG bass that was awful. All Mahog. Maybe it’s a wood issue.
I have tried variable string tensions on the Sfire and get similar response results. I actually like the lightest tension set of Chromes on it. Go figure.

I’d love to try another Starfire to see if it is just mine or they are all like that. No dealers in person in MD except for the guy with the ‘68 but at almost 3k$ is too high for me.

I will say that my SF can get responsive, but I have to crank it waaay up at home to do so. Like over 80dB. And also increase the bass side of the EQ. My other basses stay lively even at 60dB. Gain always at 10 on the amp. Master usually low on the speakers in my house. I play in a large L-shaped room. I could always just crank it and stand around the corner. At Church they do about 85dB in the auditorium and they do DI on bass direct to board and sometimes they added some overdrive to the Starfire and it was rippin’ one day there. Too fun!!

When we were touring in the Med, I had trouble when Paul was doing the setup. He'd get the speakers and the console in place but always had problems with the audio snake between them.

I'm leaning toward blaming the hollowbody although if you can get what you want from a Jack Casady Signature that would destroy the hypothesis.

Maybe we hope for a LTG-NJ or even LTG-VA and get a few Starfires in the same room...

mavuser said:

a Hagstrom Bisonic is hotter than a Hammon Dark Star. your Newark St. pickup is a reissue of the Hammon Dark Star.

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Novak used t offer the option of having him build a Novak-Bisonic to original vintage specs, not sure if he still does that.

“I get less reaction/response from the strings per level of effort when plucked as compared to my other basses. Not talking about tone or sound quality. Talking about level of and quickness of the attack of the bark per fingerstroke effort. Not as efficient at producing string sound as the others.”

I had a similar situation with my Bisonic, the G string was a bit quieter than the other strings. I raised the pole for the G string and that solved the problem.

As far as plucking and action goes, I pluck the strings firmly but like lower action. So, I use higher tension strings (Pyramid Gold flatwounds) and set the truss rod to a slight inward bow to the point where I can hear faint string clacking when unplugged, but you can’t really hear the clacking when plugged in. That seems to work for me.

RV - Does "inward bow" in your post mean bowing up toward the strings or down away from the strings? I would expect the latter but want to know. Thorne

Thornev, I loosen the truss rod a little so that the neck bows forward a little bit, I find it provides relief for the strings and reduces string clacking on the frets. I may then have to adjust the bridge height a little to get the action where I want it.

"bows forward" is equally nebulous to me as "inward bow". However, I do understand what happens when one "loosens" the truss. You created more neck relief which one does when there's too much fret noise with a low action.

I try to get the neck as straight as possible that will allow the very low action I like. However, that means the neck has to be CAPABLE of being set strait and unfortunately I find that most new guitars I've tried have uneven necks (e.g. one side is bowed while the other is not) so getting a dead strait neck is usually impossible. Either I don't buy those guitars or if I otherwise really like it, I'll deal with a little unevenness.

thornev said:

"bows forward" is equally nebulous to me as "inward bow". However, I do understand what happens when one "loosens" the truss. You created more neck relief which one does when there's too much fret noise with a low action.

I try to get the neck as straight as possible that will allow the very low action I like. However, that means the neck has to be CAPABLE of being set strait and unfortunately I find that most new guitars I've tried have uneven necks (e.g. one side is bowed while the other is not) so getting a dead strait neck is usually impossible. Either I don't buy those guitars or if I otherwise really like it, I'll deal with a little unevenness.

Click to expand...

Yes to part 1 above

For part 2, tilting the tailpiece (i.e., lower on one side) can sometimes help with an uneven neck, and some makers use dual truss rods that can help with this as well.

I try to get necks straight but anything straighter than a credit card between fret top and string bottom at 9th fret with string depressed at 1st and last frets results in fret rattling too much. I have never been able to get a "dead straight" neck on any bass (ie - a slip of paper instead of a credit card.

Novak Bisonic is reported by an end user as 12.6k.
Guild website says their NS bisonic is 6.4k
For fun I put my Ric 12.4K HiGain in the Starfire. Single coil. String spacing over the pole pieces is perfect. Will see how it sounds tomorrow.

A Hammon Dark Star is hotter than a Bisonic (we have no idea who actually made them).

As they age, Bisonics all age differently. Much like "vintage" microphones.

Update:
The Ric HB1 as well as the Ric hI Gain and also the NS Bisonic all do not make the bass responsive enough for my taste. But I love the bass anyway for its size and scale and playability.
So I think if three pickups didn't do it, then it must be just be something in the construction and/or materials of the bass that makes it that way.
But it sounds best with all the amp EQ settings full up except for the bass amp setting at 5. Having the mids and mid level maxed helps.
I will be getting my Bisonic back soon and just reinstall it unless people think the Novak would do the trick.

My SFI bridge pup sounds like this guy (at 9:17) in the video so I think it must just be the way these basses sound due to construction. But I do like the sound of his neck pup a lot so I think I should sell my SFI and get a maple SFII is the solution. Rats!! I shoulda got one when Sweetwater had them for 799!!!!! I know his is mahogany but maple will be brighter, too.