Starfire tinkering continued

mellowgerman said:

Thanks! I do love it so. Can't express just how happy this bass makes me.
I looked into the Villex booster. Very interesting indeed. I remember the Villex name although I have no recollection of the boost (or any other product they may offer), nor do I recall where I've heard about them in the past. Looks like it's right down my alley though!
The rotary switch looks most intriguing... is that the one you have? If so, do you find yourself using all 3 of the boost settings and how would you describe them?
I will say that I rarely ever have both pickups engaged fully/simultaneously on my Starfire because of the resulting mid-scoop. On my pickup pan/blend control I often come close to the center, but always shifted at least a little bit toward one or the other pickup. Maybe the mid-boost would open up some new tonal possibilities right there in the center

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Yes, it is the Villex rotary switch I have. This one: http://www.villex.com/prtb.html It is a bit expensive but I was lucky to get one cheap on ebay years ago. Before that I tried all sorts of passive controls but in the end I never used them so I took them all out. Now I only have the Villex, pickup selector and master volume. The Villex does pretty much what you say as I understand it. I usually have both pickups on full and the Villex on full as well. I would prefer bit more of the neck pickup so now I am thinking of installing one of these to see where that gets me: https://www.gitarrenelektronik.de/p...pickup-wahlschalter-6-schaltstellungen-detail

Mungi said:

Yes, it is the Villex rotary switch I have. This one: http://www.villex.com/prtb.html It is a bit expensive but I was lucky to get one cheap on ebay years ago. Before that I tried all sorts of passive controls but in the end I never used them so I took them all out. Now I only have the Villex, pickup selector and master volume. The Villex does pretty much what you say as I understand it. I usually have both pickups on full and the Villex on full as well. I would prefer bit more of the neck pickup so now I am thinking of installing one of these to see where that gets me: https://www.gitarrenelektronik.de/p...pickup-wahlschalter-6-schaltstellungen-detail

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That Wahlschalter is a pretty brilliant design! Smart, simple idea, but first time I've seen anything like it.
Also, back-tracking a bit, I realize now that I recognize the Villex name from seeing the pickups for sale on the internet used market.

mellowgerman said:

That Wahlschalter is a pretty brilliant design! Smart, simple idea, but first time I've seen anything like it.
Also, back-tracking a bit, I realize now that I recognize the Villex name from seeing the pickups for sale on the internet used market.

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Yes, the Wahlschalter is potentially great. I have it but have yet to install it. If you happen upon a Villex mid boost at a fair price don’t hesitate. I have tried all sorts of varitones but ended up removing all but the Villex is a keeper.

My old '67 rescue/restoration Starfire has returned to me. Back in 2014 I found this one on guitar center's online used listings for very cheap. It had a horrendous Leo Quan "BadAss" bridge mounted crookedly, Bartolini pickups (which now live in my Hagstrom Swede bass), a hodgepodge of non-functioning electronics, and was in desperate need of a set-up. My buddy Andrew and I split the cost and brought it back to life with parts from both of our stashes. We put a narrow-spaced Hipshot bridge on it, a vintage Bisonic, a Hammon Dark Star, and basic passive electronics (volume, tone, pickup selector). When both Andrew and I moved to different regions of the country, the bass went with him. He has since acquired another vintage Starfire (a '68 I believe, in natural mahogany) which his focus has shifted to. The '68 got the pickups we had originally put in this '67 restoration. So having sat in it's case for a long time, this one has now come back into my stable and received a full utilitarian make-over...
The result, though still in rough cosmetic shape, is a super comfortable and great-sounding player-grade Frankenstein bass.
It now sports a set of Novak BSX custom humbuckers (each consists of two Bisonic coils in a standard humbucker-size housing) and an Alembic filter preamp. Each pickup has it's own 4-position rotary switch, allowing me to select North coil, South coil, both in series, or both in parallel. So lots of tone options on tap! Still awaiting delivery of a new set of knobs, so currently they're a mismatched set from the parts drawer. Sound clips coming eventually, but for now... behold!!

Very nice harness on there for sure!!
I wish I understood series and parallel that way I could wire up one of my two hum bucker basses that way so I have more options.

lungimsam said:

Very nice harness on there for sure!!
I wish I understood series and parallel that way I could wire up one of my two hum bucker basses that way so I have more options.

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Thanks!
If you get a 3-pole, 4-throw rotary switch, this is the schematic I used:

Thanks!

New knobs are in!
Also, every once in a while I decide to try roundwounds/pressurewounds/etc. on a new-to-the-stable bass, thinking that I might some day have a bass again (like the Gibson Thunderbirds I've owned) on which rounds actually sound good to me. So I tried rounds and pressurewounds on this one, but to no avail. Putting a set of DR Legend flatwounds on made it sound perfect. I almost put one of my beloved NOS Maxima Flatwound sets on it, but especially when it comes to my band's next recording session, it will be great to have both flavors on hand for different songs.

My compliments on utilizing two toggles.
Yes flats on a semi hollow seem to match.
I was thinking of trying rounds on my Starfire again, too, though. Pro Steels.
Now the last thing it needs to finish it off is a healthy dose of fingerboard oil and you’ll be ready to crank it up! That is a very cool bass! Super souped up!

lungimsam said:

My compliments on utilizing two toggles.
Yes flats on a semi hollow seem to match.
I was thinking of trying rounds on my Starfire again, too, though. Pro Steels.
Now the last thing it needs to finish it off is a healthy dose of fingerboard oil and you’ll be ready to crank it up! That is a very cool bass! Super souped up!

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Thanks! Although there's only one toggle. The chrome bit toward the back is the output jack. That said, it does have 3 4-position rotary switches, so there's certainly no shortage of switches

For rounds I've never been a big fan of steel strings. My favorite rounds are TI nickels, then GHS round-core boomers and DR Sunbeams. Stainless steel is too bright and clanky for my liking and playing style. I've even found that to be true when it comes to fret wire. Of course, it's all a matter of preference

That’s really cool. You say you have individual 4-position switches for each pickup. So are the controls a master volume with 4-position switch and low pass filter for each pickup? And what is the toggle switch for? That’s neat what Novak did with the pickups. You must be able to get some really interesting sounds out of that bass.

RVBASS said:

That’s really cool. You say you have individual 4-position switches for each pickup. So are the controls a master volume with 4-position switch and low pass filter for each pickup? And what is the toggle switch for? That’s neat what Novak did with the pickups. You must be able to get some really interesting sounds out of that bass.

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Thanks! The controls on the sunburst '67 are as follows:

- 4way rotary switch for NECK (North coil, Parallel, Series, South coil)
- 4way rotary switch for BRIDGE (North coil, Parallel, Series, South coil)
- 4way rotary switch for PICKUP SELECTION (Neck, Both, Bridge, By-Pass) *will be rewiring with Series option instead of By-Pass
- Master Volume
- Master Filter
- Q-switch (mini toggle)

A second filter would have been fun, but I only had one on hand. Still, crazy versatile bass!

Thanks for the clarification, I don’t think I’ve seen a bass with that much variation and control over individual pickups.

What is the difference between series and parallel wiring? What do the two different wirings allow you to do?

RVBASS said:

Thanks for the clarification, I don’t think I’ve seen a bass with that much variation and control over individual pickups.

What is the difference between series and parallel wiring? What do the two different wirings allow you to do?

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Typically a traditional humbucker pickup consists of two coils wired in series. When you wire them in parallel instead, you get a softer output with a natural mid-frequency scoop.

Here the concept is applied to separate coils within a pickup, but the same can be applied when selecting between two separate pickups. Traditionally selecting both pickups on a guitar or bass selects the pickups in parallel. Adding the series option results in louder output and a boost in mid-frequencies.

Having the option to choose one coil or the other on each pickup allows me to select differences in physical spacing. For example, the poles of the pickup are about 0.75" apart. So selecting the outside coil of both pickups yields 1.5" of extra space between the two selected coils VS. selecting the inside coil of both pickups. Likewise, selecting the bridge-facing coil of both pickups yields a set of single-coils that are 0.75" closer to the bridge than selecting the neck-facing coil of both pickups.
This is the same reason it's worth experimenting with rotating a Bisonic pickup 180 degrees, as it allows you to physically move the position of the poles. Even just 0.75" can have a notable difference on a bass's tone.

Wow, that’s great! Thanks very much for the diagram and explanation, really helps understand what is involved and the various options and effects, should be fun to explore all of the tonal options!

RVBASS said:

Wow, that’s great! Thanks very much for the diagram and explanation, really helps understand what is involved and the various options and effects, should be fun to explore all of the tonal options!

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Always happy to share the experiments with anyone who's interested! Once I have the rotary pickup selector switch rewired to add in the dual-pickups-in-series option, I plan to make a demo of the bass to post here. I may not cover all the possible tones since every possible combination between the 3 rotary switches would include 24 different tones, but I'll still do my best to demonstrate the vast versatility of this kind of set-up.

RVBASS said:

Thanks for the clarification, I don’t think I’ve seen a bass with that much variation and control over individual pickups.

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For those of us intimidated by controls it is a good thing that one pickup per string did not get adopted as a standard.

As a veer, I was trying to confirm that Lesh's Big Brown once had quad pickups and I came across https://www.psaudio.com/copper/article/what-is-a-bass-part-4-electronic-guitars/ which was written by mgod, and is interesting in its own right and with some Guild content.

fronobulax said:

As a veer, I was trying to confirm that Lesh's Big Brown once had quad pickups and I came across https://www.psaudio.com/copper/article/what-is-a-bass-part-4-electronic-guitars/ which was written by mgod, and is interesting in its own right and with some Guild content.

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Yes, Big Brown is quad equipped. I was lucky enough to check it out and have it explained when I visited Alembic a few years ago.

I've been wanting to mod a bass with individual pickups and tone controls for each string. Still plan to just to see what I can come up with.

OK, back to the original thread....24 tone capability is amazing!

So following this thread to it's logical conclusion... eventually I'm going to have to do a Starfire with a set of humbuckers per string, 12 rotary switches, 8 low pass filters, 8 volumes, and a master volume?

Looks great! Thanks for all the explanations.

Does DR make the Legends in short scale?