Request: History & Facts of the 2014 Guild GSR M-85 II Bass

Does anyone know the history and any facts about the limited run (25 only) 2014 Guild GSR M-85 II?

Any info, reference, pics, etc welcomed.

Thanks in advance.

Here's what I have so far:

General Information:

Guild introduces a very special limited edition run of the M-85 II Bass, which doubles the power and performance of its mid-'60s-style single-pickup precursor with two big Bi-Sonic pickups and especially elegant appointments.

The compact Aristocrat TM-style hollow body has a single cutaway and a laminated spruce arched top with parallel tone bar bracing, mahogany back and sides and stately black- and-white binding. The unbound three-piece mahogany-maple-mahogany neck has a comfortable profile and a 9.5"-radius rosewood fingerboard with 21 medium jumbo frets and mother-of-pearl dot inlays. Other premium features of this distinctive bass include volume and tone control knobs for each pickup, upper- bout three-way toggle pickup selector switch, two-way mini-toggle switch on lower bout for low-end roll-off, bone nut, combo bridge/ tailpiece with rosewood saddles, headstock with two-on-a-side Gotoh® tuners and vintage- style "Chesterfield" inlay, nickel hardware, and nitrocellulose lacquer finish in classic Cherry Red. Hard-shell case included.

Very Limited Run - Only 25 produced

MPN: 3820300888
UPC: 717669577759

• Series: GSR
• Body Shape: Guild® M-85 Bass
• Body Top: Arched Laminated Spruce
• Back and Sides: Mahogany
• Body Finish: Nitrocellulose Lacquer
• Body Depth: 2" (50.8 mm)
• Bracing: Parallel Tone Bars
• Headstock: Vintage 2x2 with Chesterfield Inlay
• Neck: 3-Piece Mahogany/Maple/Mahogany
• Neck Finish: Nitrocellulose Lacquer
• Body Binding: White/Black/White/Black
• String Nut: Bone, 1.50" (38.1 mm)
• Fingerboard: Rosewood, 9.5" (241 mm) Radius
• Frets: 21 Medium Jumbo
• Position Inlay: Mother-of-Pearl Dots
• Scale Length: 30.75" (781 mm)
• Hardsware: Nickel-Plated
• Bridge: Guild® Combo Bridge-Tailpiece with Rosewood String Saddles
• Tuning Machines: Gotoh® Die-Cast
• Strings: Nickel-Plated Steel, .045-.105 Gauges
• Controls: Volume 1. (Neck Pickup), Volume 2. (Bridge Pickup), Tone 1. (Neck Pickup), Tone 2. (Bridge Pickup)
• PickupsGuild® "Bi-Sonic" Bass (Bridge) Guild® "Bi-Sonic" Bass (Neck)
• Pickup Switching: 3-Position Toggle: Position 1. Bridge Pickup, Position 2. Bridge and Neck Pickups, Position 3. Neck Pickup
• Other Features: Chesterfield Headstock Inlay, 2-Position Mini-Toggle Switch for Low-End Rolloff

Production (Serial) Numbers : LINK

There are multiple threads on LTG about that bass. There are no 25 of them, so far we only found about 12.

Just two examples:



Ralf

SFIV1967 said:

There are multiple threads on LTG about that bass. There are no 25 of them, so far we only found about 12.

Just two examples:

New limited run Guild GSR M-85 II bass

Well, what do we have here? A GSR M-85 II bass ! A Christmas 2013 surprise again. Limited run, 24 pieces worldwide Cherry red nitro lacquer finish Cutaway hollow body design Arched laminated spruce top with black/white binding, parallel tone bar bracing, mahogany back and sides, 3-piece...

letstalkguild.com

Guild GSR Acoustic Models and Production Numbers

I know of following GSR M-85 II: (Updated 23/12/30) NQ295004 (It had a small laquer issue near the nut on the bass side of the neck, no break, but was fixed) That one was on ebay. NQ295005 was for sale by Elderly in Lansing in 2013 and sometime later sold by 8th Steet Music, Pennsauken...

letstalkguild.com

Ralf

Click to expand...

Yes, maybe 13, including @mavuser's.

Kim K told me that production was severely hampered because of the pickup supply, and that at least half a dozen came back with headstock breaks that occurred during shipping. The combination of the large headstock, tender volute, substandard case, and I suspect not the greatest packing caused that. I've yet to see any out there that have an obviously repaired headstock, so I'm not sure what happened to them.

What else do you want to know? Sometimes specific questions get more interesting answers.

The pickups are Newark Street Guild Bisonics so there is definitely some confusion on there being a problem with availability of pickups. or else 2 stories got melted together somehow.

the bass has a mahogany top. not spruce as advertised.

i really like mine! even if i've barely touched it

mavuser said:

The pickups are Newark Street Guild Bisonics so there is definitely some confusion on there being a problem with availability of pickups. or else 2 stories got melted together somehow.

the bass has a mahogany top. not spruce as advertised.

i really like mine! even if i've barely touched it

Click to expand...

I've always thought that the pickups weren't Newark Street, because the gist that I got was that the guy that was making them was holding back on the supply because he was mad that Fender was reverse engineering them for other applications. Maybe I misunderstood, but that was the impression that I got.

twocorgis said:

I've always thought that the pickups weren't Newark Street, because the gist that I got was that the guy that was making them was holding back on the supply because he was mad that Fender was reverse engineering them for other applications. Maybe I misunderstood, but that was the impression that I got.

Click to expand...

why don't you pop the hood on yours and tell us what u have? mine has newark street

twocorgis said:

the guy that was making them was holding back on the supply because he was mad that Fender was reverse engineering them for other applications.

Click to expand...

Wasn't that the case on the earlier 2012 GSR Starfire I and II models? (only 11 GSR SF-1 and 9 GSR SF-2 were made) They were rumored to have 70ies NOS pickups.
EDIT: I now see both actually had HB-2 humbuckers, so there could be no relation to the Bisonics or Darkstars.



Some rumors were about Fred Hammon initially supplying NOS or repaired original Guild pickups, maybe Guild (FMIC) had to re-plan and use Newark St. pickups for the GSR M-85 II ? The GSR M-85 II only showed up end of 2013, almost a year after the Newark St. models were introduced. Also wasn't that around the time Fred Hammon "disappeared" from the public? That was another rumor I somehow remember.

Ralf

mavuser said:

why don't you pop the hood on yours and tell us what u have? mine has newark street

Click to expand...

I'll give it a try

SFIV1967 said:

Wasn't that the case on the earlier 2012 GSR Starfire I and II models? (11 GSR SF-1 and 9 GSR SF-2) They were rumored to have 70ies NOS pickups and I think you said they might have been supplied by Fred Hammon initially until he stopped supply. The GSR M-85 II only showed up end of 2013, almost a year after the Newark St. models were introduced.
Ralf

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Kim never specified who "the guy" was by name, but there is a (likely remote) possibility that it was Fred. @mgod might know.

OK, here's what the underside of the bridge pickup looks like. How do you tell if it's a Newark Street?



As you can see, there's also two sets of holes for the pickup mount, which impresses me as somewhat less than tidy, given the price of these!

I corrected my post #8 as the GSR SF-1 and GSR SF-2 used HB-2 humbuckers.
Ralf

twocorgis said:

How do you tell if it's a Newark Street?

Click to expand...

Made by BHK!
(Boo Heung Precision Machinery Co., Ltd., South Korea.)

Same as for all other Newark St. pickups:



Ralf

SFIV1967 said:

Made by BHK!
(Boo Heung Precision Machinery Co., Ltd., South Korea.)

Same as for all other Newark St. pickups:

Ralf

Click to expand...

Boy, that's pretty disappointing! You'd think that Guild would have done a little better, given what they were charging for these!

twocorgis said:

Boy, that's pretty disappointing! You'd think that Guild would have done a little better, given what they were charging for these!

Click to expand...

Same for the 3 American Patriarch models, they also used Newark St. pickups and they were even more expensive. Both Kim Keller and Mike Lewis told me at NAMM 2013 they were pretty happy with the outcome of the Korean pickups in general.
Ralf

twocorgis said:

OK, here's what the underside of the bridge pickup looks like. How do you tell if it's a Newark Street?

As you can see, there's also two sets of holes for the pickup mount, which impresses me as somewhat less than tidy, given the price of these!

Click to expand...

Sandy, looks like u pulled the neck pickup- but they used a bridge pickup for the neck! mine is the same way!

there *is* a Newark Street neck pickup- now that the Starfire bass-2 is in full roll out. not sure how it differs from the bridge pickup, other than wire location and/or length. when the M-85-2 GSR bass came out, there was only SF-1 and M-85-1 Newark street basses. so, there may have been some issue in obtaining or making Newark Street *neck pickups at the time, since none other existed... seems unlikely...but so far mine and Sandy's have a bridge Newark Street pickup, in the neck postion!

it is possible that importing the Newark Street pickups, as raw parts, and not as a stand alone finished product for retail sale (the pickup itself)...presented another headache. with the newark street basses, the pickups were part of a finished product made in Korea, for sale in the USA- that is a different game than importing the parts, and building the bass in the USA, for sale in the USA...
thus, the part about someone in North America originally building the pickups, but that never happened, or not in any decent enough quantity... makes sense

modified Starfire bass case


Newark St. neck Bisonic from the internet:


Newark St. bridge Bisonic from the neck position of (my) GSR M-85-II #24

twocorgis said:

Yes, maybe 13, including @mavuser's.

Click to expand...

we know of 12 including mine... and all others accounted for, as of today.

@twocorgis : Did you ever see Kim's own one? Did he maybe bring it to one of the small private LMG meetings? (I can remember a post where he brought one guitar or bass with him to one of the little meetings but can't find the thread anymore).
Ralf

mavuser said:

Sandy, looks like u pulled the neck pickup- but they used a bridge pickup for the neck! mine is the same way!

there *is* a Newark Street neck pickup- now that the Starfire bass-2 is in full roll out. not sure how it differs from the bridge pickup, other than wire location and/or length. when the M-85-2 GSR bass came out, there was only SF-1 and M-85-1 Newark street basses. so, there may have been some issue in obtaining or making Newark Street *neck pickups at the time, since none other existed... seems unlikely...but so far mine and Sandy's have a bridge Newark Street pickup, in the neck postion!

it is possible that importing the Newark Street pickups, as raw parts, and not as a stand alone finished product for retail sale (the pickup itself)...presented another headache. with the newark street basses, the pickups were part of a finished product made in Korea, for sale in the USA- that is a different game than importing the parts, and building the bass in the USA, for sale in the USA...
thus, the part about someone in North America originally building the pickups, but that never happened, or not in any decent enough quantity... makes sense

Click to expand...

Quite possible Eric. I wonder if all the GSR M85IIs have these same pickups.

SFIV1967 said:

@twocorgis : Did you ever see Kim's own one? Did he maybe bring it to one of the small private LMG meetings? (I can remember a post where he brought one guitar or bass with him to one of the little meetings but can't find the thread anymore).
Ralf

Click to expand...

Ralf, I'm reviewing the text messages I had with Kim. The serial number of his is NQ 346002, and mine is NQ308004.

He told me that all but one or two that shipped came back with headstock breaks, and remembers having six to repair and re-lacquer, but didn't remember how many they got done before Fender shuttered the plant. He said at that point there were four or five others that were completed but unshipped. And he remembers 12 in total being built.

He went on to say that he didn't remember specifically where the pups came from, but that the guy building them was a handful, and didn't want to increase his production, perhaps because he "probably" knew that Fender would send the design to China and have them made there.

That does raise the possibility that maybe there was something done to these pups here, before they were installed in the bass? Who knows? Maybe Kim does, but it was eight years ago now.

the Newark Street pickup, at least when it first came out, is apparently a copy of the Dark Star, not a vintage Bisonic. So Fred Hammon may have very well been involved with the beginning stages of that pickup being reissued, one way or another.