wileypickett
Enlightened Member
With Guilds, one does get used to that "heft"!
LOVE Guild Jumbos...but a bit confused!
- Thread starter The Retro Rocker
- Start date
With Guilds, one does get used to that "heft"!
txbumper57
Enlightened Member
If you think the traditional F50 or F50R from New Hartord are light, you ought to try a Guild Orpheum Jumbo from the custom shop in New Hartford. Same size as the F50R except a 1/4" deeper body and about 1.5 pounds lighter than the F50R or F50. They are amazingly Resonant, especially with the Adirondack top. I have a 2013 F50R with the DTAR Pickup and a 2013 Orpheum Jumbo straight acoustic. The F50R is my stage guitar and does everything well. The Orpheum is what I use to record and especially Finger pick with and it is AMAZING!
Neal
Senior Member
Every New Hartford Guild I have played is considerably lighter than the corresponding Westerly model.
Neal
Neal
The Retro Rocker
Member
Just found a 2006 Corona-made F-50 online. Looks interesting! But I don't hear as many good things about Corona as I do Westerly or NH. So tough to try to find what I want when I can't actually play it! From everything I've read, the consensus is Westerly R.I. is rated #1 and Corona is dead last, is that correct? Even when it concerns the maple bodied F-50?
Retro,
"Dead last" may be true when you talk about the perceived value of these instruments, but it doesn't mean that was a "bad period" or anything, the way that other brands have been through. I saw a couple of Corona-built instruments that should've been bandsawed, but that was definitely the exception, not the rule.
The price has to be right, because if you choose to sell the instrument down the line, you will face the same negative perception that you stated as as buyer. All that said, my advice is that if you are getting a great deal on the instrument, you shouldn't be biased against it. I would gather as much information and detailed pictures about the guitar as you can, and make sure that the seller will accept returns (and that you understand the policy) as I would never advise buying an instrument sight-unseen from any era. At least, not if you expect to play it.
Good luck with the hunt. IMO, an F-50 from any era is a very special instrument.
"Dead last" may be true when you talk about the perceived value of these instruments, but it doesn't mean that was a "bad period" or anything, the way that other brands have been through. I saw a couple of Corona-built instruments that should've been bandsawed, but that was definitely the exception, not the rule.
The price has to be right, because if you choose to sell the instrument down the line, you will face the same negative perception that you stated as as buyer. All that said, my advice is that if you are getting a great deal on the instrument, you shouldn't be biased against it. I would gather as much information and detailed pictures about the guitar as you can, and make sure that the seller will accept returns (and that you understand the policy) as I would never advise buying an instrument sight-unseen from any era. At least, not if you expect to play it.
Good luck with the hunt. IMO, an F-50 from any era is a very special instrument.
Taylor Martin Guild
Senior Member
I would never buy a Guild simply because of where it was produced.
I buy guitars by how they sound and play.
If you like the guitar, get it.
I buy guitars by how they sound and play.
If you like the guitar, get it.
adorshki
Reverential Member
Wonder if strings were swapped? NH's were shipped with coated mediums (.13), Maybe just needs a slight truss rod tweak or are you used to heavys?
Yes, basically there will be no new F50's produced until CMG starts, tha's always a question mark even though they've announced plans to do it, so he'll probably hold out until he sells or CMG announces they've started a run of F55's.
Depends on the build era, I think Fender Westerlys are pretty light, especially my D25, and early Westerlys are supposed to be similar, light like Hobokens, but I've never held a Tacoma or New Hartford to compare.
txbumper57
Enlightened Member
Just for price reference a 2008 Guild Tacoma made F50 maple in beautiful Sunburst finish with the Dtar Lock n Load pickup just sold on Ebay for $1350. The guitar looked to be in Mint untouched condition with lots of saddle and perfect action. Even had all of it's original paperwork. It was not a factory second either. Honestly at $2300 you could find a Guild Orpheum Jumbo in Used excellent condition that will definitely hold it's value.
adorshki
Reverential Member
Took me a second to remember an '06 can't possibly be a Corona, they were already shut down and Tacoma was being "occupied" in '05 and shipping product in '06, so an '06 will have to be a Tacoma which can be verified by s/n (All Coronas start with "C" and Tacomas with "T"), and label shows where built in any case.
Yes the market definitely don't give Coronas no respeck.
I'll always jump to Corona's defense and I own one, but objectively I have to admit it seems that they do get a larger percentage of dud reports compared total output than any of the other factories.
And yes I do recall somebody reporting buying a used Corona F50 that just didn't float their boat, although it seemed the saddle had been shaved exceedingly low in my opinion.
Also recall a dud report on a JF30, basically a blinged-down F50 and possibly has standard vs. shaved or scalloped braces (haven't seen what either of those were supposed to have from Corona.)
In counterpoint I've always said build quality of my D40 is every bit as good as Westerly and finish is the best of my trio (Twocorgiis said the same about his JF30-12), but for some reason it was never as loud as I expected, given the D40's rep.
Maybe I was spoiled by having two archbacks, or maybe it was built too heavy (it's a tank) or the finish was too thick, or all 3, but it only really started opening up volume-wise in the last year.
So it still comes down to the same old bottom line, you're better off trying before you buy if you possibly can, or at least getting a return option, no matter where it was made.
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The Retro Rocker
Member
They are listing it as an 2006 Corona F-50. They posted a pic of the label and it does say Corona and the # is CJ000-300. So maybe they have the year wrong.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
The serial number is actually CU000300. Looks very nice in black! Yes, it is a Corona made one but not from 2006 but a bit earlier. CU000257 for instance was confirmed by Hans as 2003 made. So S/N 300 could be also 2003 or 2004, I don't know how many they made in Corona in each year.
Ralf
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70man
Member
Now that's a manly mans tool......but someone here will probably say it was operated by a lady..HahahahaF-50s were already made in Pearl Street New York. The one on page 115 for instance.
How old the press is, I don't know, but it was in Westerly already. It's a heated 30 ton Wabash press:
Ralf
70man
Member
OOps is that the new operator in discussions with Ren ? Check out the footwear.Health and safety would have a field day with that!.Even if the factory is not set up yet,you should really have better protective footwear.That just makes me cling.As far as I know there was only that one and it was and will be used for all models that had/will have laminated backs.
Another picture when the press arrived in Oxnard earlier this year (with Ren Ferguson):
They even brought the wedges/shims made from old Ovation guitar necks from NH! (that story is here)
The press looks like it needs a bit of TLC...
Ralf
adorshki
Reverential Member
Yeah, we can guarantee you they've got the year wrong as Ralf explains, and there's never been any question about the factory location being correct on labels during that era.
The only "gray area" is exactly when Corona stopped producing and when Tacoma started (making Guilds). I don't think there are actually any '05 model year Corona OR Tacoma Guilds. I'm pretty darn sure they must have been out of Corona by '05 since they already owned Tacoma, which they bought in October of '04 according to Wikipedia..
If I had to guess how long they took to relocate tooling/machinery, or re-tool to add capacity for Tacoma to begin Guild production, I'd say a minimum of 90 days. And more likely 6 months.
Documentation about time frames from that period is very scarce, and trust me, I've looked.
I suspect Fender was very tight-lipped about it in an effort to maintain a "business as usual" appearance to its dealers and customers. We do know that a large amount of Corona product was liquidated without warranty and this in itself gave the brand reputation a black eye with consumers and authorized dealers who now had to compete with below cost product from re-sellers.
It seems reasonable to suspect that product was probably mid-to late '04 production that might have been intended for '05 model year sales. By model year I mean the price list date with specs for instruments in it. They had to be planned ahead, of course.
The other unknown as I mentioned, is exactly when Tacoma built its first regular production guitars, I suspect it couldn't have been sooner than early '05.
Our guru Hans Moust probably knows but this would represent valuable intellectual property for him and he's entitled to reserve it for his books on the history of Guild. He does after all deserve compensation for his hard work, right?
And having explained all that, I still get surprised occasionally by some brand new revelation.
:friendly_wink:
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Neal
Senior Member
Agreed. My wife and I visited a soapstone quarry near our house recently to pick out some stone for new kitchen countertops (yes, I do occasionally spend money on something other than guitars).
They made my wife put on a pair of borrowed work boots to walk around their warehouse. No open-toed shoes allowed.
Of course, in the event that a 48" X 25" X 1.25" slab of soapstone landed on her foot, I doubt it would matter much what she was wearing...
Neal
They made my wife put on a pair of borrowed work boots to walk around their warehouse. No open-toed shoes allowed.
Of course, in the event that a 48" X 25" X 1.25" slab of soapstone landed on her foot, I doubt it would matter much what she was wearing...
Neal
adorshki
Reverential Member
I think that's pretty universal under OSHA, steel-toed boots required for our warehouse employees and specifically nobody allowed in stocking aisles without 'em.
I was guessing that if the Cordoba plant wasn't actually operating yet they might not have been subject to OSHA rules yet either.
I'm sure there's no question that our favorite instrument maker wouldn't dream of violating any OSHA rules.
Not knowingly anyway.
The Retro Rocker
Member
Sorry for so many questions, but I figure YOU guys are the experts, so here's another one. Can paint affect the sound? And here's why I ask;
Years ago I had a 1970's D25M...one of my all time favorite acoustic guitars. Beautiful tone, sound, projection. Just a real sweetheart of a guitar. Then, I needed a guitar I could plug in and play live onstage, and as it happened, Guitar Center had one Guild D-5 BKE left in stock. It was a special guitar run made for GC back in '98. So I got it! It did OK plugged in, but never sounded great acoustically....and I kept it for about 5-6 years, hoping it would "open up", but it never did. I eventually sold both of them due to "circumstances".
When talking about these guitars later, Hans told me the D5 was basically a D4 with paint and Fishman power-jack.
The sound difference between these two guitars were night and day. Not even close!
Someone said that the black paint killed the tone on the D5. Others said the guitar quality was the reason, the D5 was no match for the D25.
I am seriously looking at the Black F-50 (would be great for the shows and to play at home),,,but will the color/paint affect the tone?
Years ago I had a 1970's D25M...one of my all time favorite acoustic guitars. Beautiful tone, sound, projection. Just a real sweetheart of a guitar. Then, I needed a guitar I could plug in and play live onstage, and as it happened, Guitar Center had one Guild D-5 BKE left in stock. It was a special guitar run made for GC back in '98. So I got it! It did OK plugged in, but never sounded great acoustically....and I kept it for about 5-6 years, hoping it would "open up", but it never did. I eventually sold both of them due to "circumstances".
When talking about these guitars later, Hans told me the D5 was basically a D4 with paint and Fishman power-jack.
The sound difference between these two guitars were night and day. Not even close!
Someone said that the black paint killed the tone on the D5. Others said the guitar quality was the reason, the D5 was no match for the D25.
I am seriously looking at the Black F-50 (would be great for the shows and to play at home),,,but will the color/paint affect the tone?
merlin6666
Senior Member
Now Tacoma was it's own acoustic brand that was already set up to produce a fairly high volume of acoustics at the outset (as was New Hartford though they may not have had equipment to do bodies and bend sides etc). Would that not have been enough to get started with Guilds fairly fast (i.e. within months)?
adorshki
Reverential Member
I did say within months, 3 at minimum, and more likely 6, but that would still put production at sometime in '05 and then, just like Cordoba's doing now, you have to build up some production inventory to start shipping.
I suspect what was in place at Tacoma would not have been sufficient to meet anticipated volume of Guild and Tacoma production.
Main point was trying to explain why there's no '05 Guilds that I can recall seeing.
If there are, they're going to be a surprise to me just like '01 Coronas were to Ralf.
Giving your question the repsect it deserves, more background on what I based my deductions on:
New Hartford had tooling in place from the Ovation acoustic side and yet still, look how long it took them to produce their first Guild.
In Corona, Fender had invested in a fair amount of brand new machinery/tooling when setting up a dedicated Guild assembly building, I suspect they moved at least some of it up to Tacoma, but yes, "suspect" is the operative word here.
Don't know if Tacoma was sprying NCL pre-Fender, but Fender had invested in a brand new spray booth to spray NCL on Guild acoustics(as well as poly for electrics), so there's one potential piece that might have been needed.
One piece we know for sure that had to be relocated and reinstalled was the archback press.
And it was a verbal shortcut but I meant that 90 day minimum to include time it takes to simply "complete the paperwork" before/while actually moving hard assets, and training even existing skilled workforce in the nuances of building Guilds.
All the stuff that needs to be done before a whole new line of guitars can actually start being built.
Having written all that, I just Googled "2005 Tacoma Guild" and lo and behold, Guild's' own website has the key for dating Tacoma Guilds built after February 2005.
There's my 3 months at least, after October of '04.
But I also found a couple of links about 2005 D-55's, so now I know they're out there.
But not very many.