E-Bay Guild Buyers Beware!

HoboKen

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I searched and searched for the most perfect used Westerly Guild D-55 I could find for over a year. Seller, "tonezone1" presented what I thought was such a guitar in "excellent + condition." 20 other folks thought so and bid also. I should have been smarter when seller would only accept a personal check and would only insure its shipping upon my insistance. I never buy or sell any guitar without shipping insurance.

Guitar received with small dent in another area of the hardshell case and guitar strings de-tuned down only two steps. Looking closely at the guitar I found hairline cracks along the fretboard sides in the guitar body. I could not get my 5.1 MP digital camera to get the cracks to show, (seller used a 3.1 MP camera I believe for the E-Bay pictures), but in close visual inspection you could see them clearly.....and with a mirror and flashlight very clearly inside the guitar. Which only means that maybe one can trust on-line photos and maybe one cannnot. Seller claimed in an e-mail replyI had buyer's remorse and there was nothing wrong with the guitar.

I took the guitar to the most reputable luthier and authorized Fender-Guild (Martin & Taylor too) repair person in South-Central PA. He told me that he could do a "patch job" that would last a few years , but eventually the neck would cave into the body with out a major rebuild costing about what I'd already paid for the guitar....and even then it would not be in original "Excellent +" condition.

The seller would not take back the guitar, saying its was in "excellent+ condition" when he shipped it. This left me the only recourse of claiming against USPS. In so doing I fould out that the seller insured the guitar for $210 less than the check I sent him for the guitar delivered. USPS did pay the claim and kept the guitar, but the seller under insured the guitar.
Since the claim took over 90 days to be resolved, E-bAY WOULD NOT LET ME GET THEIR E-bAY BUYER'S GUARANTEE $150. So much for giving the seller a chance to make things right.

E-Mails and regular snail-mail and finally a classified letter to seller failed to get any reply at all. I finally had to place an initial negative response for E-Bay item # 7409271899 transaction for this seller. This is the first bad experience I've had in buying and selling guitars in over 30 years......and wouldn't you know, I only need a D-55 to complete my Guild Collection.

E-Bay Buyers.......only buy if it can be returned........if insured and make seller state amount insured for,....... and use pay-pal!

What more can I say.....'cept heartbroken HoboKen...over and out.
 

West R Lee

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Oh Ken....Oh Ken,

Oh where have you been? Well, haven't spoken with you in a while and was wondering how all of that came out. I recently received a D55 from a seller that has some monor structural problems too. Problem with mine is that the seller bent over backwards to accomodate me and sold at what I consider to be a bargain price. The sound of the D55 is incredible.

Seems like on Ebay, for every 10 good sellers there's 1 ripoff artist.

Great to hear from you Ken. How is everything else up there in PA?

West
 

GardMan

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Ken,
Sorry to hear of your eBay fiasco. My first eBay experience, which caused quite a bit of angst, was for a '72 all mahogany D25 in VG+ condition. The seller specifically stated "no splits or cracks." I paid my $665 by PayPal, and waited with excitement for that UPS truck to arrive... to my dismay, when I opened the case, I was shocked. The bridge had been shaved down and the sadddle was at an acute angle, all to get the action playable... and even then it was high. In routing out the bridge for the saddle, or due to the saddle angle, the bridge itself had split end to end. The tail and tailblock inside were split, as was the headstock. Finally, the guitar smelled so strong of smoke, that my wife didn't want it upstairs.

Fortunately for me, the buyer conduced his business over eBAY, and was VERY concerned about feedback. When I explained that his ad was misleading, if not false, he refunded my purchase price and shipping, so I was only out the $23 return shipping.

I then started asking (somewhat apoligetically) tons of questions of sellers, specifically about splits or cracks, shaved bridges, etc that might not show in photos. My next two purchases (D25M and G37Bl) went OK... though I worried a lot until the guitars arrived. Both were in decent condition for their age... and consistent with the ads. The '72 D25M has an odd scratch on the bass side between the bouts... I didnt even see it until I had been playing the guitar for a week. I keep worrying that it is a hairline split, but it doesn't show through to the inside, and isn't moving, so I am trying ot to worry about it (too much). The G37 arrived packed in a shipping box and foam peanuts... no case. The box took a pretty major puncture, but the guitar appeared OK. I won't let that happen again! Next time a guitar is advertised w/o a case, I will instruct them to buy one to ship in (at my cost), or I'll send them one of mine to ship in!

DId you ever get the seller to refund the difference? How did they respond to the feedback? I won't even consider paying for eBay purchases with a personal check or money order, since that leaves no recourse in trying to get a refund. At least with PayPal or a credit card, there is a chance for disputing... and I instruct the seller to insure for the full purchase price.

Hope you find your D55!
Dave
 

Squawk

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I've bought many guitars over ebay over the past years - and had only one problem where there was misrepresentation. The seller was a pawn shop and the guitar in question was a D47 - just about unplayable, scratched and dinged, when represented as like new. The shop owner herself was surprised her employee that handled ebay would do that and was defensive at first, so she asked me for photos, etc. She then agreed to take it back - I, too, was refunded all but return shipping and we left friends. Her parting words were she didn't do many instruments and would be more careful next time. At the time, the paypal limit was lower and it wouldn't have covered the full cost - although I guess I could've done a protest with the credit card company as well as paypal and not paid the bill until resolved. But I never had to go there.

On the other hand, I've gotten incredible deals on ebay - balance has overwhelmingly been in my favor - but I never let my guard down - and always use paypal or direct credit card (often an option where seller is a store).
 

HoboKen

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No reply or the $210 back from the seller (Tonezone1) yet...if ever! Any suggestions as to what to do now to get my $210 difference back or give this Bozo a real dose of $210 of deserved negative publicity and reports over and above what I've done with my e-bay buyers report?

HoboKen
 

West R Lee

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Well you know Ken, I've always felt that rip-offs deserve the same ruthless treatment. Call it Old Testamant mentality. Eye for an eye.

On many occasions in the past, I have written people who have bought something from a buyer who had an item listed on Ebay that I was interested in. I ask them how their transaction with the seller went. I see no reason you couldn't simply write a bidder on any of "Tonezone's" items and share your experience. I know he sells a lot of Fender electrics. In fact, I'd encourage others to do the same. Before long, I'm sure it will begin to hurt him. Obviously that's all he will understand, since he can't seem to understand that he's screwed you!

West
 

john_kidder

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Ken: if you dont' have an email or other trail that he promised to insure the guitar, then I'd say you're s.o.l. But if you do, then

1) get his physical address from eBay - you probably already have - if not, got to http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQtZvbQQsofindtypeZ9 and enter your transaction details

2) phone or mail the Small Claims Court in the nearest city, get them to send you forms, and make a claim for the difference between what he did insure it for and what you paid for it.

3) file the claim. It's generally pretty simple, and (at least up here, and I'm sure where he lives as well), the judges are practical people who don't dick about with small time cheaters. You'll get your judgment plus costs.
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Ken,
Thanks for the info at the end.

West,
As usual, you have the right idea (unlike Coastie).

John,
Will the court force the guy to pay?
 

california

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West R Lee said:
Oh Ken....Oh Ken,

Oh where have you been? Well, haven't spoken with you in a while and was wondering how all of that came out. I recently received a D55 from a seller that has some monor structural problems too. Problem with mine is that the seller bent over backwards to accomodate me and sold at what I consider to be a bargain price. The sound of the D55 is incredible.

Seems like on Ebay, for every 10 good sellers there's 1 ripoff artist.

Great to hear from you Ken. How is everything else up there in PA?

West

At the same time that West was bidding on his D-55, I was bidding on a Carlo Greco from the same seller. I recently corresponded with the buyer of the Greco, and he had the same issues as West -- an incredible guitar that was poorly taken care of. Both guitars were kept uncased in a NYC apartment near a radiator -- the Greco was more fragile than the D-55 (not that fragile is the first word that comes to mind shen thinking about a guild) and the finish didn't fare well at all, a condition that was not mentioned in the listing even though the seller meant well.

There seem to be plenty of guitars out there that the seller fell in love with at the store then lost interest when he/she got it home. I worry about listings where someone says the guitar was rarely played if at all, and even worse, it was alway on a stand, not on a case. These are guitars -- not wall art, and anything hanging around a house unprotected is going to be subject to humidity or dryness (be especially carefull of guitars from New York apartments!), bumps, dings, etc.

Buying guitars from individuals is risky. Most of the time if you research well you're the windshield, but occasionaly you're the bug.
 

Mr. P ~

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8) And we all know what the last thing is that goes through a bugs mind when he hits the windshield!! :wink:
 

kentukblue

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Hoboken....Bummer story man, I too share your ebay experience.( One that ive already told california about.) My seller described the guitar as "Perfect condition" only to find out that it will prob need a neck reset job to get it to perfect. I suspect, as was mentioned above, that this guitar was hardly ever in the case.(the seller mentioned it always hanging on his wall) Also, the seller said he almost never played it, which i thought was a plus to start with but was only a sign that the seller knew nothing about his guitar. So if the refund happens or i resale it, im going to end up Guildless until i can find a decent seller and a decent git...I feel your pain!
 

dklsplace

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My only bad ebay story involved a QSC power amp. It did have a happy ending, though nearly 2 years in the making...seller finally reimbursed the entire purchase price & I eventually sold the amp on ebay again after fixing it myself. Don't give up!

Regarding vintage guitars in un-played condition. It's my experience (since I've been watching for projects) that there is a reason these guitars have gone un-played. Usually, a low neck set & high action right from the factory.
 

john_kidder

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Darryl Hattenhauer said:
John,
Will the court force the guy to pay?

Darryl:

Not sure about the US, but up here the Small Claims Court issues an order to pay - it's still up to the claimant to enforce it, but the Order carries a lot of weight. It's at the least a definitive conclusion to the question - "Yes, you do owe me money, precisely this amount, and you're legally obligated to pay." Moves the discussion ahead dramatically, at the very least.
 

Jeff

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think in most states down here you have a hard time collecting.

I'm no lawyer but once the courts award a settlement & the judgee refuses to pay you can file a lein on whatever the guy may own, real estate for instance, then when it comes to sell the guilty party will have to deal with you again.

It all really boils down to economics, likely more expensive to proceed legally than the value of a guitar. Depends on how much you value revenge.
 

West R Lee

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I don't know Jeff, I think there's more to it than revenge. There's principle involved and also the need to keep the guy from screwing the next guy. I just have no tolerance for people like that, simply taking advantage of a buyer who has integrity to make payment sight unseen, trusting you, the seller to keep your word on the condition of a product. Then to screw the buyer basically say, what are ya going to do about it.

I still think you could just about shut him down on Ebay by sending all the bidders on the many guitars he sells, Ebay messages telling of Ken's experience. I certainly wouldn't buy from someone after receiving a warning from a previous buyer.

West
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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West has a good point here. The crooks do what they do because they know they can get away with it. If each victim struck back, there'd be a lot less crime.
 
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