sfIII
Member
Anyone have one of these... I just won one on Ebay. I've been looking for a nice clean tube amp. Hope this is it.
Guild Superstar tube guitar amp
- Thread starter sfIII
- Start date
sfIII
Member
The amp arrived.... not as loud as I think it should be in the clean channel.. I have to turn on the reverb to make it loud. It may have to go to a amp tech... or perhaps I should just swich some tubes around. Reading the post by Matsickma below on the thunder 1 amp helped me understand some of the controls.. Many controls seem similar, same three position switches next to the volume.
sfIII
Member
I just got this amp out of the repair shop.. It needed one tube (for the reverb) and a couple of capacitors... It sounds wonderful. Just what I was looking for. And my total investment was $350.
I got the schematic from Jay Pilzer... and found out that this model was also called a Thunderbird. Seems that Guild changed the name around.
I got the schematic from Jay Pilzer... and found out that this model was also called a Thunderbird. Seems that Guild changed the name around.
sfIII
Member
Update...
With a stroke of good luck I picked up the specs for this amp on EBAY... It is a 100 Watt amp.. I thought it was 50.. I need a two button foot switch for the tremolo and reverb.. Will a fender work? Mine came with the EV speaker.. an upgrade which cost an extra $80 back in 69..
"SuperStar will faithfully reproduce everything the player puts into it - from strong lows to piercing highs"
I agree - and am very happy with this amp.
With a stroke of good luck I picked up the specs for this amp on EBAY... It is a 100 Watt amp.. I thought it was 50.. I need a two button foot switch for the tremolo and reverb.. Will a fender work? Mine came with the EV speaker.. an upgrade which cost an extra $80 back in 69..
"SuperStar will faithfully reproduce everything the player puts into it - from strong lows to piercing highs"
I agree - and am very happy with this amp.
matsickma
Senior Member
Hi SFIII (Don),
The Guild SuperStar amp uses a pair of 6L6 finals. The preamp can drive the finals hard so the amp puts out a typical 50W RMS. Guild's literature on this amp reports the 100 Watts but it is misleading. The advertising literature of amp companies up thru the mid 1970's advertised all different power values for similar amps. There really wasn't much of a standard. It began to be more common by the mid 1970's to define amplifer power as "music power" or RMS power. RMS stands for Root Mean Square or the "square root of the mean power squared". For an amplifier with negligible harmonic distortion the RMS power of a simple tone is equal to 1/2 of the peak power. It gets more complicted when an amp is driven to distortion. Under that case you have to sum up the square power of each harmonic and then take the square root to get the RMS level.
The literature you were reading stated the amplifier power in terms of peak power-not really representative of how we hear the amp. The Superstar is comparable to a 50 Watt amp. It is a great amp and one of my favorites.
I often try different speakers with this amp. I have tried a variety including Jensen, CTS, Bag End, JBL D130 and K130's. I perfer the K130's the most. I am very curious what your EV SRO sounds like. The stock speaker of my Superstar had little upper end tone. It was ok for organ or bass but not great for guitar.
Additionally, the Thunderstar came out in 1969 and Guild also re-released the Thunderbird amp that year. The 1969 Thunderbird is totally different from the earlier two models (i.e., 1966-1967 Beige and Woodtone tolex model with 1-12 and 1-8 (Reverb) and the 1968 Black tolex with 2-12's model). The earlier models used a pair of 7591 power tubes. These tubes are good for around 30 to 35 Watts. Great sounding finals. In my opnion the best sounding tube around. The 1969 Thunderbird uses the exact same design (pre amp and power amp) as the Superstar except the cabinet is larger to handle a pair of 2-12 inch speakers.
Sincerly,
matsickma 8)
p.s.,
I know you havn't been getting home to Pittsburgh much these days as you are on the road investigating that failed dam. Hope you get back in town to greet the Steelers after this weeks Superbowl! Also let me know how you like the Thunderbass Amp.
The Guild SuperStar amp uses a pair of 6L6 finals. The preamp can drive the finals hard so the amp puts out a typical 50W RMS. Guild's literature on this amp reports the 100 Watts but it is misleading. The advertising literature of amp companies up thru the mid 1970's advertised all different power values for similar amps. There really wasn't much of a standard. It began to be more common by the mid 1970's to define amplifer power as "music power" or RMS power. RMS stands for Root Mean Square or the "square root of the mean power squared". For an amplifier with negligible harmonic distortion the RMS power of a simple tone is equal to 1/2 of the peak power. It gets more complicted when an amp is driven to distortion. Under that case you have to sum up the square power of each harmonic and then take the square root to get the RMS level.
The literature you were reading stated the amplifier power in terms of peak power-not really representative of how we hear the amp. The Superstar is comparable to a 50 Watt amp. It is a great amp and one of my favorites.
I often try different speakers with this amp. I have tried a variety including Jensen, CTS, Bag End, JBL D130 and K130's. I perfer the K130's the most. I am very curious what your EV SRO sounds like. The stock speaker of my Superstar had little upper end tone. It was ok for organ or bass but not great for guitar.
Additionally, the Thunderstar came out in 1969 and Guild also re-released the Thunderbird amp that year. The 1969 Thunderbird is totally different from the earlier two models (i.e., 1966-1967 Beige and Woodtone tolex model with 1-12 and 1-8 (Reverb) and the 1968 Black tolex with 2-12's model). The earlier models used a pair of 7591 power tubes. These tubes are good for around 30 to 35 Watts. Great sounding finals. In my opnion the best sounding tube around. The 1969 Thunderbird uses the exact same design (pre amp and power amp) as the Superstar except the cabinet is larger to handle a pair of 2-12 inch speakers.
Sincerly,
matsickma 8)
p.s.,
I know you havn't been getting home to Pittsburgh much these days as you are on the road investigating that failed dam. Hope you get back in town to greet the Steelers after this weeks Superbowl! Also let me know how you like the Thunderbass Amp.
matsickma
Senior Member
Hi SFIII (Don),
The Guild SuperStar amp uses a pair of 6L6 finals. The preamp can drive the finals hard so the amp puts out a typical 50W RMS. Guild's literature on this amp reports the 100 Watts but it is misleading. The advertising literature of amp companies up thru the mid 1970's advertised all different power values for similar amps. There really wasn't much of a standard. It began to be more common by the mid 1970's to define amplifer power as "music power" or RMS power. RMS stands for Root Mean Square or the "square root of the mean power squared". For an amplifier with negligible harmonic distortion the RMS power of a simple tone is equal to 1/2 of the peak power. It gets more complicted when an amp is driven to distortion. Under that case you have to sum up the square power of each harmonic and then take the square root to get the RMS level.
The literature you were reading stated the amplifier power in terms of peak power-not really representative of how we hear the amp. The Superstar is comparable to a 50 Watt amp. It is a great amp and one of my favorites.
I often try different speakers with this amp. I have tried a variety including Jensen, CTS, Bag End, JBL D130 and K130's. I perfer the K130's the most. I am very curious what your EV SRO sounds like. The stock speaker of my Superstar had little upper end tone. It was ok for organ or bass but not great for guitar.
Additionally, the Thunderstar came out in 1969 and Guild also re-released the Thunderbird amp that year. The 1969 Thunderbird is totally different from the earlier two models (i.e., 1966-1967 Beige and Woodtone tolex model with 1-12 and 1-8 (Reverb) and the 1968 Black tolex with 2-12's model). The earlier models used a pair of 7591 power tubes. These tubes are good for around 30 to 35 Watts. Great sounding finals. In my opnion the best sounding tube around. The 1969 Thunderbird uses the exact same design (pre amp and power amp) as the Superstar except the cabinet is larger to handle a pair of 2-12 inch speakers.
Sincerly,
matsickma 8)
p.s.,
I know you havn't been getting home to Pittsburgh much these days as you are on the road investigating that failed dam. Hope you get back in town to greet the Steelers after this weeks Superbowl! Also let me know how you like the Thunderbass Amp.
The Guild SuperStar amp uses a pair of 6L6 finals. The preamp can drive the finals hard so the amp puts out a typical 50W RMS. Guild's literature on this amp reports the 100 Watts but it is misleading. The advertising literature of amp companies up thru the mid 1970's advertised all different power values for similar amps. There really wasn't much of a standard. It began to be more common by the mid 1970's to define amplifer power as "music power" or RMS power. RMS stands for Root Mean Square or the "square root of the mean power squared". For an amplifier with negligible harmonic distortion the RMS power of a simple tone is equal to 1/2 of the peak power. It gets more complicted when an amp is driven to distortion. Under that case you have to sum up the square power of each harmonic and then take the square root to get the RMS level.
The literature you were reading stated the amplifier power in terms of peak power-not really representative of how we hear the amp. The Superstar is comparable to a 50 Watt amp. It is a great amp and one of my favorites.
I often try different speakers with this amp. I have tried a variety including Jensen, CTS, Bag End, JBL D130 and K130's. I perfer the K130's the most. I am very curious what your EV SRO sounds like. The stock speaker of my Superstar had little upper end tone. It was ok for organ or bass but not great for guitar.
Additionally, the Thunderstar came out in 1969 and Guild also re-released the Thunderbird amp that year. The 1969 Thunderbird is totally different from the earlier two models (i.e., 1966-1967 Beige and Woodtone tolex model with 1-12 and 1-8 (Reverb) and the 1968 Black tolex with 2-12's model). The earlier models used a pair of 7591 power tubes. These tubes are good for around 30 to 35 Watts. Great sounding finals. In my opnion the best sounding tube around. The 1969 Thunderbird uses the exact same design (pre amp and power amp) as the Superstar except the cabinet is larger to handle a pair of 2-12 inch speakers.
Sincerly,
matsickma 8)
p.s.,
I know you havn't been getting home to Pittsburgh much these days as you are on the road investigating that failed dam. Hope you get back in town to greet the Steelers after this weeks Superbowl! Also let me know how you like the Thunderbass Amp.
sfIII
Member
I have be able to play both my new Thunderstar and the Superstar this weekend. The highs coming from the Superstar are much more detailed at the same volume. It is a likely will remain to be my favorite amp. THis could be because of the EV speaker or the trip to an amp tech that the Superstar made. I primarily use the clean channel on the Superatar. The trem/reverb on the Superstar is ok if turned way down. It would be nice if there were a foot switch to turn them off/on. The reverb is connected to preamp by two wires (red and black) there are two rca jack on the preamp just above the red and black connections. Could this be for a foot switch.
The Thunderbass is clean and if I didn't have the Superstar to compair it to I would be very happy with it.
Mike - I bought yet another Thunderbass on Ebay and am having it shipped to Missouri. I moved my fifth wheel camper out there - as I will be there for a while. This is the Thunderbase with two channels and a cab with two 15" speakers. My neighbors will love me. Wondering if that head would also power the cab that I got from you?
I've gone from only having one amp to having 4 is just a few months.
Howard
The Thunderbass is clean and if I didn't have the Superstar to compair it to I would be very happy with it.
Mike - I bought yet another Thunderbass on Ebay and am having it shipped to Missouri. I moved my fifth wheel camper out there - as I will be there for a while. This is the Thunderbase with two channels and a cab with two 15" speakers. My neighbors will love me. Wondering if that head would also power the cab that I got from you?
I've gone from only having one amp to having 4 is just a few months.
Howard
sfIII
Member
I have be able to play both my new Thunderstar and the Superstar this weekend. The highs coming from the Superstar are much more detailed at the same volume. It is a likely will remain to be my favorite amp. THis could be because of the EV speaker or the trip to an amp tech that the Superstar made. I primarily use the clean channel on the Superatar. The trem/reverb on the Superstar is ok if turned way down. It would be nice if there were a foot switch to turn them off/on. The reverb is connected to preamp by two wires (red and black) there are two rca jack on the preamp just above the red and black connections. Could this be for a foot switch.
The Thunderbass is clean and if I didn't have the Superstar to compair it to I would be very happy with it.
Mike - I bought yet another Thunderbass on Ebay and am having it shipped to Missouri. I moved my fifth wheel camper out there - as I will be there for a while. This is the Thunderbase with two channels and a cab with two 15" speakers. My neighbors will love me. Wondering if that head would also power the cab that I got from you?
I've gone from only having one amp to having 4 is just a few months.
Howard
The Thunderbass is clean and if I didn't have the Superstar to compair it to I would be very happy with it.
Mike - I bought yet another Thunderbass on Ebay and am having it shipped to Missouri. I moved my fifth wheel camper out there - as I will be there for a while. This is the Thunderbase with two channels and a cab with two 15" speakers. My neighbors will love me. Wondering if that head would also power the cab that I got from you?
I've gone from only having one amp to having 4 is just a few months.
Howard
john_kidder
Senior Member
Re: Thunder 1 RVT : Variations
Synchronicity at work - I downloaded the same schematic yesterday. I'm actually looking for a schematic of the T1-12, can't find one in the public domain.
Matsickma - are the main stages of this amp are the same as the T1-12, with the simple addition of a separate reverb?
capnjuan said:
Synchronicity at work - I downloaded the same schematic yesterday. I'm actually looking for a schematic of the T1-12, can't find one in the public domain.
Matsickma - are the main stages of this amp are the same as the T1-12, with the simple addition of a separate reverb?
john_kidder
Senior Member
Thanks Cap'n. The amp's not here, but those tubes sound right. I'll pass the schematic to my tech for review and use.
Cheers,
Cheers,
john_kidder
Senior Member
Confirmed: 2x 12AX7 , 2x 6GW8 , 1x 6CA4
matsickma
Senior Member
Hi Guys,
A few comments...
John,
The Thunder 1 and Thunder 1 RVT are similar but not identical less the speaker driven reverb circuit. A good tech should be able to use the T1 RVT schematic to repair a T1 especially the power section.
The differences between the T1 and T1 RVT beyond the Reverb circuit is the following:
Inputs: The T1 has two inputs: Normal & High Gain, The T1 RVT has three inputs: Mic, Normal and Bright.
Tremelo: The T1 has a Tremelo ON/OFF switch on the front panel; The T1 RVT uses a hardwired foot switch to turn the Tremelo On/OFF. Both the T1 and T1 RVT have a Tremelo speed control. The T1 has a small POT burried back inside the amp housing where you can adjust the Tremelo strength; the T1 RVT has a Tremelo Strength control on the front of the amp next to the Speed control.
Layout: The T1 Tremelo controls are near the Inputs; The T1 RVT has the Tremelo controls near the Volume/Pull For Bright control.
I used to have a T1 schematic and will see if I can track it down. Believe it or not I sent a snail mail letter to Fender a few years back and I got a nice email reply stating they did not have a lot of info on Guild amps but they had a few schematics and they emailed them to me. Unfortunately I never backed up my files and lost them when I had a harddrive failure.
Hi capnjuan,
The amp you are describing is a Thunder amp and not a Thunderbird amp. Very different amps although the early Thunderbird amp did use the same reverb circuit as the Thunder 1 RVT. Additionally the way you described your amp it sounds like one of the early models (There were 3 different cosmetic styles of Thunder amps between 1965 and 1969. They also have a few subtle alterations to the cabinet & chassie. The most notable is the later amps had a power polarity switch.)
The grill style of your amp is often refered to as the "fish scale" grill cloth. The color of the grill cloth when new was actually a bright silver. With exposure these grill cloths eventually turn yellowish. I have owed a few T1 amps that came with the origional cover and were cosmetically like new. I couldn't believe the stark silver grill cloth cover of a closet kept amp!
The Thunder 1 amp is a great little amp. However if your amp is really beat up and it is going to cost a mint to fix it I would recommend you pick up another one and sell yours for parts. The T1 RVT's pop up on ebay pretty often. The usually range between $300-$400. Keep yours for parts and when your satisfied you got one working then sell it to some who is looking for parts. Often the reverb tanks get one or more springs broken.
Additionally, I saw your earlier post and you correctly listed the proper Reverb power tube as a 6BM8/ECL82. I was incorrect in my tube list in stating the Reverb power tube was a 6GW8. My mistake!! I hope I didn't cause a problem for anyone.
With regards to 6GW8 availability...I have not had any problems finding these tubes on ebay. They may not be made anymore but their are still readily available.
The T1 and T1 RVT are great little amps. However they are not for everyone. My preference is the T1 RVT model. The Reverb makes quite a postitive difference on this amp. Many people find the amp to be too clean sounding. This is true at low levels. However there is a time when that is the tone I am looking for. When you crank up the T1 amp, with a lot of treble, it breaks up with a much more agressive tone than EL84's or 6V6's. It's a uniques sound to the Thunder amps. I always recommend that better tone out of Guild Thunder series amp is achieved with a speaker swap. The stock Oxfords don't do the amp justice.
Finally, the Thunder amps can be very bright and have a strong mid tone. However they are a bit muddy sounding at the lower frequencies- especially when cranked up. I tried to clean this lowend tone up with various speaker substitutions but I could never tighten up the low end tone. It seems to be intrinsic to the amp. However, this low end tone issue is not a major detractor.
The Thunder amp is best used in a small room or studio. A few years back I was talking with Jay Pilzer about Guild amps (I bought a Guild Reverb Converter off of him.) He told me his son took a Thunder 1 RVT to a studio in the Nashville area and when the amp was heard by various guitar players they were really impressed. There seemed to be a lot of interest in owning this model.
By the way...I notice that in the responses that you can show exerpt of a discussion in your response that you can comment to. How is that done?
Thanks,
matsickma
A few comments...
John,
The Thunder 1 and Thunder 1 RVT are similar but not identical less the speaker driven reverb circuit. A good tech should be able to use the T1 RVT schematic to repair a T1 especially the power section.
The differences between the T1 and T1 RVT beyond the Reverb circuit is the following:
Inputs: The T1 has two inputs: Normal & High Gain, The T1 RVT has three inputs: Mic, Normal and Bright.
Tremelo: The T1 has a Tremelo ON/OFF switch on the front panel; The T1 RVT uses a hardwired foot switch to turn the Tremelo On/OFF. Both the T1 and T1 RVT have a Tremelo speed control. The T1 has a small POT burried back inside the amp housing where you can adjust the Tremelo strength; the T1 RVT has a Tremelo Strength control on the front of the amp next to the Speed control.
Layout: The T1 Tremelo controls are near the Inputs; The T1 RVT has the Tremelo controls near the Volume/Pull For Bright control.
I used to have a T1 schematic and will see if I can track it down. Believe it or not I sent a snail mail letter to Fender a few years back and I got a nice email reply stating they did not have a lot of info on Guild amps but they had a few schematics and they emailed them to me. Unfortunately I never backed up my files and lost them when I had a harddrive failure.
Hi capnjuan,
The amp you are describing is a Thunder amp and not a Thunderbird amp. Very different amps although the early Thunderbird amp did use the same reverb circuit as the Thunder 1 RVT. Additionally the way you described your amp it sounds like one of the early models (There were 3 different cosmetic styles of Thunder amps between 1965 and 1969. They also have a few subtle alterations to the cabinet & chassie. The most notable is the later amps had a power polarity switch.)
The grill style of your amp is often refered to as the "fish scale" grill cloth. The color of the grill cloth when new was actually a bright silver. With exposure these grill cloths eventually turn yellowish. I have owed a few T1 amps that came with the origional cover and were cosmetically like new. I couldn't believe the stark silver grill cloth cover of a closet kept amp!
The Thunder 1 amp is a great little amp. However if your amp is really beat up and it is going to cost a mint to fix it I would recommend you pick up another one and sell yours for parts. The T1 RVT's pop up on ebay pretty often. The usually range between $300-$400. Keep yours for parts and when your satisfied you got one working then sell it to some who is looking for parts. Often the reverb tanks get one or more springs broken.
Additionally, I saw your earlier post and you correctly listed the proper Reverb power tube as a 6BM8/ECL82. I was incorrect in my tube list in stating the Reverb power tube was a 6GW8. My mistake!!
I hope I didn't cause a problem for anyone. With regards to 6GW8 availability...I have not had any problems finding these tubes on ebay. They may not be made anymore but their are still readily available.
The T1 and T1 RVT are great little amps. However they are not for everyone. My preference is the T1 RVT model. The Reverb makes quite a postitive difference on this amp. Many people find the amp to be too clean sounding. This is true at low levels. However there is a time when that is the tone I am looking for. When you crank up the T1 amp, with a lot of treble, it breaks up with a much more agressive tone than EL84's or 6V6's. It's a uniques sound to the Thunder amps. I always recommend that better tone out of Guild Thunder series amp is achieved with a speaker swap. The stock Oxfords don't do the amp justice.
Finally, the Thunder amps can be very bright and have a strong mid tone. However they are a bit muddy sounding at the lower frequencies- especially when cranked up. I tried to clean this lowend tone up with various speaker substitutions but I could never tighten up the low end tone. It seems to be intrinsic to the amp. However, this low end tone issue is not a major detractor.
The Thunder amp is best used in a small room or studio. A few years back I was talking with Jay Pilzer about Guild amps (I bought a Guild Reverb Converter off of him.) He told me his son took a Thunder 1 RVT to a studio in the Nashville area and when the amp was heard by various guitar players they were really impressed. There seemed to be a lot of interest in owning this model.
By the way...I notice that in the responses that you can show exerpt of a discussion in your response that you can comment to. How is that done?
Thanks,
matsickma
john_kidder
Senior Member
Matsickma:
More great information. What a helpful gold mine you are, to be sure.
And at last I get to give you some help: to include a section of another's post, click on the <quote> button in the top right of the frame - this will insert the complete text of the posting into your new message, with HTML code "[ quote]" and the beginning and "[/ quote]" at the end. Edit the text as desired, and then carry on with your message as desired.
It will look like this when you click on <submit>:
More great information. What a helpful gold mine you are, to be sure.
And at last I get to give you some help: to include a section of another's post, click on the <quote> button in the top right of the frame - this will insert the complete text of the posting into your new message, with HTML code "[ quote]" and the beginning and "[/ quote]" at the end. Edit the text as desired, and then carry on with your message as desired.
It will look like this when you click on <submit>:
matsickma said: