Unplugged sound in an electric guitar

GuildFS4612CE

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Originally Posted by Neal Speaking of strings, I tried out acoustic strings (PB lights) on the ~53 X-150 I recently acquired. It sounded pretty good as an acoustic instrument, despite the pickup mounted on the laminated spruce top.

It sounded horrible when I plugged it in, however. Turns out that you can't have it both ways.

Interesting. I wonder how Nickel acoustic strings would fare on electric plugged in.

To use a mag PUP with acoustic strings, you need a PUP that is voiced for acoustic...the laws of physics apply to string materials/mass vs. PUP. Since my FS4612CE...with both a UST and Mag PUP...both thoroughly antiquated...is essentially an ELECTRIC guitar...I.E. you need to amplify it...I use ELECTRIC strings...the transducer picks up VIBRATIONS...and doesn't much care if the strings are steel or nickel or bronze...but the old PUP needs the electric strings...possibly a new modern PUP voiced for acoustic would change that...but for now, just like it is, works.
 

bluesypicky

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GAD: Good analysis. And you hit the nail on the head when you make the distinction between the different levels of scrutiny each player goes through when considering buying a guitar.

I never was (and probably never will be ) a guitar tech, so I pretty much focus on the end result only when considering an instrument, which for an electric guitar is how it feels/sounds plugged in.

Once again, how boring would the world be if we all acted / thought the same way? :)

PS: Nice Strat... and the right one for me: It has the rosewood fingerboard! lol
 

adorshki

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I used to think that way - who cares what the wood is because the pickup only gets the string vibrations? I have become convinced otherwise.
And the first thing I think of is that Artist Awards are built to sound good acoustically and that the floating pickups were used so as not to inhibit the top's resonance at all.
In their original form, electrics HAD to sound good acoustically and the amp was just there to up the volume as needed.
But it is primarily a hollow and chambered-body issue, I wouldn't expect a solid-body's unplugged sound to be a good indicator of its plugged-in capabilities.
Remember we didn't even have solid-bodies until Les Paul got a wild idea and put pickups on a plank..
The wood in an electric definitely effects sustain which effects tone because the overtones decay differently and it turns out that some pickups actually pickup vibration from things besides the strings.
I suspect rather that the strings ARE vibrating differently according to what they're strung on.
Overtones are generated by the strings themselves, although granted their sustain is affected by the materials and construction of the instrument whether solid or hollow.
But you may very well know something I don't about pickups and whether they actually pickup "vibrations" (resonant frequencies) as opposed to the simple fluctuation of the magnetic field as it's affected by the strings.
 

Neal

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The Franz pickups from the '50's and early '60's seem to capture far more than string vibration. They appear to be microphonic, to some extent, unlike the more modern archtops I have owned. More like a K&K on an acoustic guitar.
 

Quantum Strummer

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I enjoy playing both of my M-75s unplugged. Being hollow they're quite loud & ringy for electric guitars. In general I go for electrics, even solidbodies, that have good acoustic character. This has never steered me wrong in cases where I've bought one without plugging it in first. Still, plenty of inert-sounding electrics—when played acoustically—come alive and sound great when plugged in.

I've often recorded my Rickie 360 unplugged, usually doubling an electric rhythm part. It adds snap without sounding obviously "acoustic."

-Dave-
 

GAD

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GAD: Good analysis. And you hit the nail on the head when you make the distinction between the different levels of scrutiny each player goes through when considering buying a guitar.

I never was (and probably never will be ) a guitar tech, so I pretty much focus on the end result only when considering an instrument, which for an electric guitar is how it feels/sounds plugged in.

Once again, how boring would the world be if we all acted / thought the same way? :)

PS: Nice Strat... and the right one for me: It has the rosewood fingerboard! lol

Thanks! I dislike maple-board guitars. A lot. They just feel so wrong to me.

I've only ever played electrics unplugged. Have I been doing it wrong? LOL!! :stupid:

LOL. You need one of these:

eee49e8679d76d755c109eb56a53db78.jpg


Disclaimer: don't do that.

And the first thing I think of is that Artist Awards are built to sound good acoustically and that the floating pickups were used so as not to inhibit the top's resonance at all.
In their original form, electrics HAD to sound good acoustically and the amp was just there to up the volume as needed.
But it is primarily a hollow and chambered-body issue, I wouldn't expect a solid-body's unplugged sound to be a good indicator of its plugged-in capabilities.
Remember we didn't even have solid-bodies until Les Paul got a wild idea and put pickups on a plank..

I suspect rather that the strings ARE vibrating differently according to what they're strung on.
Overtones are generated by the strings themselves, although granted their sustain is affected by the materials and construction of the instrument whether solid or hollow.
But you may very well know something I don't about pickups and whether they actually pickup "vibrations" (resonant frequencies) as opposed to the simple fluctuation of the magnetic field as it's affected by the strings.

Pickups actually produce voltage based on the changing velocity of the strings according to Faraday's Law of electromagnetic induction. There's a cool animated gif of the principle somewhere but I can't find it at the moment. Edit - found it: https://nationalmaglab.org/education/magnet-academy/watch-play/interactive/guitar-pickup

The Franz pickups from the '50's and early '60's seem to capture far more than string vibration. They appear to be microphonic, to some extent, unlike the more modern archtops I have owned. More like a K&K on an acoustic guitar.

I believe all pickups are microphonic to some degree. On older pickups where the winding may be looser, there's more vibration possible which leads to more microphonics. Plenty of people consider this to be a good thing which is why not all pickups are wax potted. Sadly, the term "microphonic" has come to mean "bad" because of pickups that squeal and tubes that do bad things, but as you've noted, it could be part of the magic in older pickups.
 

adorshki

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Pickups actually produce voltage based on the changing velocity of the strings according to Faraday's Law of electromagnetic induction. There's a cool animated gif of the principle somewhere but I can't find it at the moment. Edit - found it: https://nationalmaglab.org/education/magnet-academy/watch-play/interactive/guitar-pickup
Yeah I worded that poorly, just was focused on the magnetic part of the process (taking for granted everyone here knows that the fluctuation in the field changes the output of the coil, and why inductance is a better measure of a coil's characteristics than resistance), not seeing how plain old vibration would play a part.

I believe all pickups are microphonic to some degree. On older pickups where the winding may be looser, there's more vibration possible which leads to more microphonics. Plenty of people consider this to be a good thing which is why not all pickups are wax potted. Sadly, the term "microphonic" has come to mean "bad" because of pickups that squeal and tubes that do bad things, but as you've noted, it could be part of the magic in older pickups.
A-HA. I did learn something, forgot about the microphonic principle. (and I agree, "microphonic" isn't neccessarily a "bad" thing" )
 

Neal

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As far as the Franz pickups are concerned, "microphonic" is meant as a term of endearment.
 
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JohnW63

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Thanks! I dislike maple-board guitars. A lot. They just feel so wrong to me.

On the other hand, I like the maple fretboard on my G&L. It feels faster and seems to allow bends easier. And...I think it looks COOL on a strat type guitar.
 

txbumper57

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I know it is a little off topic but GAD you made me post this with your Strat pics! I love me some Strats, Especially the 1987 Fender American Standards with the Swimming pool route. The swimming pool route actually gives them a different tonal quality to my ears than the ones specifically routed for single coils. Since you showed pics of yours I have to show Pics of one of mine. I have a few at the moment. Fender American Vintage Re Issue 59 with Rosewood Slab Board, Fender American Vintage Re Issue 56 model with the Boat Neck in the "Mary Kay" Finish, and 3 1987 Fender American Standard Strats with Rosewood boards and different pickups in each. Custom Shop Abby 69's in one, Standard 87 pickups with the TBX tone control in another and this one. Here is a Photo of my 1987 with 3 TV Jones pickups, Classic neck and middle and Classic plus in the bridge. This is one of my Favorites to play that I have ever had.

bVVbA4.jpg
ogTCJy.jpg
prjBMA.jpg


TX
 
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GAD

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Very cool! I don't know, though, admitting to liking the swimming pool route is akin to admitting you like Disco in 1984 at a Sex Pistols concert. :wink:

Strats don't usually do much for me, but I do like nice super-Strat. What I do love about Strats is that 2&4 position quack, and that's why I keep a Strat around.

That Strat you showed with the TV Jones in it looks cool! Will it do a TV-Jones quack? Is that a thing? Suddenly I feel like I need to know that.
 

txbumper57

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Yes sir it will do a TV Jones Quack in 2 and 4 positions! It has a standard 5 way Strat Switch with a push pull pot so I can run the neck and bridge together without the middle and all three pickups at the same time on top of the standard 5 way Strat settings. It is a lot of fun to play and the tonal possibilities are endless, Not to mention it looks really cool as well! LOL!

TX
 

Opsimath

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Oh my. Recently I have noted the electrics turning my head. I just read through this entire post with all the technical discussion and saw GAD's pictures of all those wires!

Maybe I'll just keep looking at the pretty pictures.
 

bluesypicky

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Gosh, I am confused. A Strat with humbuckers? Isn't that sacrilege? Like a Les Paul with single-coils?
:)

Les Paul's have been known to carry P90's...
But I agree that Strat's should not wear humbuckers. There's enough humbucker sporting, strat-like guitars out there damn it! Pick one! :very_drunk:

LMAO
 

txbumper57

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Gosh, I am confused. A Strat with humbuckers? Isn't that sacrilege? Like a Les Paul with single-coils?

:)

To some it may be but to me the best sounding Les Pauls all had single coil Staple pickups in them anyway! I do love the single coils in the stratocasters I do have but I wanted something different for this one which is why I opted for the TV Jones setup which is completely reversible if I ever want it back to original. I have even thought of doing a 3 P90 setup for one of my other 87 strats but just have not had the time to mess with it, Maybe one day.:single_eye:

TX
 

chazmo

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Les Paul's have been known to carry P90's...
But I agree that Strat's should not wear humbuckers. There's enough humbucker sporting, strat-like guitars out there damn it! Pick one! :very_drunk:

LMAO

:) Hey, it's all good to me.

Pascal, you could surely make blues/funk sound good with any of these crazy beasts!

Oh, hey, Tex, I'm sure you're right. I actually think the TV Jones pickups look awesome in the Strat pickguard. It just made me do a double-take though.
 

krysh

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...I will absolutely play an electric guitar unplugged before I even consider plugging it in, though. Why? Because I'm looking for a couple of things. They are: Sustain, resonance, and feel, all of which can be masked, altered, or massively overwhelmed by an amp. We tend to focus on the sound and feel of the amp when plugged in, and to Pascal's point, since that's all the audience hears and feels, maybe that's all that should matter, but as the player I get more out of playing when I have a good interaction with the instrument and for me that is best experienced when unplugged. ...
+1 for me
 

Quantum Strummer

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To some it may be but to me the best sounding Les Pauls all had single coil Staple pickups in them anyway!

Yup! I also played a first-year ('52) LP this past weekend with great P-90s. Very clear, not so hot & gritty (though that has its place too). But the staples are elegant. :)

I have even thought of doing a 3 P90 setup for one of my other 87 strats but just have not had the time to mess with it, Maybe one day.:single_eye:

One of my more recent "experiment" guitars is a Reverend Jetsteam with three of their P-90s. The 'tweener positions are among the best I've heard. There's quack but also more midrange body than you'll get with a stock Strat. Triple pickup Rickies put the neck & middle pickups together with stock wiring. This too gives a great fatter quack tone.

-Dave-
 
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