Bi Sonics, Dark Stars & Humbuckers. How do I tell them apart ?

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Warning - Snark attack

Would you point out to me where I ever stated that my reference tone was equipment specific? I have found it is extremely difficult to discuss tone when all you can use are words. One way I have adopted to counter that is to refer to something that is recorded and widely available. People may not understand what I mean when I say a "woody growl" but they can all listen to Baxter's and get an idea of what sounds I am trying to describe.
'S ok, no snark detected, and was primarily for benefit of other readers who may not realize that Baxter's most likely completely predates his Guild being recorded.

That said, I can certainly try to remember and clarify that I am not saying Baxter's was played on a Starfire even though that is what I am trying to make a Starfire sound like.
Yep, no such assertion was made but I wasn't absolutely sure it wasn't implied or that others wouldn't infer it either, thus the cautionary note.
(There's always the possibility of new lurkers who don't know Jack's history the way we do here)


However I think the video below is clearly uses a Starfire and to my ears the sound I strive for from Baxter's is also here :)


Oh I get that.
"Pooneil" was a showcase for the new bass in many live takes, my personal favorite is the one on "Live at Fillmore East 1969".
This violent agreement thing, it works here, too? :friendly_wink:
 
Last edited:

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
"I also need to note that if I were absolutely committed to sounding like Jack I would be doing a lot more with amps and would be studying his hands and technique."

Attire and hair style as well! Appearance is 90% of it !!!

*snicker*

However the first time I remember enjoying ballet was when I realized I could close my eyes and listen and ignore those people moving on stage.
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5

I recommend checking out the mighty bass of Jack Casady on the Jefferson Airplane live album 'Bless Its Pointed Little Head' for one of the most 'classic' representations of the Bi-Sonic's righteous power (although early Allman Bros and Dead albums will shed much light as well).

Clearly a different understanding of which bass Jack played and when. Very good point, however - if the focus is the Bisonic, Lesh and Oakley both used them and not always in a Starfire, if I recall some of Lesh's rigs correctly.
 

Happy Face

Justified Ancient of MuMu
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
916
Reaction score
239
"if the focus is the Bisonic, Lesh and Oakley both used them and not always in a Starfire, if I recall some of Lesh's rigs correctly."

Isn't Lesh playing a Gibson EB-3 equipped with Bisonics on the Festival Train DVD? Pretty sure that was the case.

And didn't I buy an EB-3 equipped with Darkstars from someone here?
 

Happy Face

Justified Ancient of MuMu
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
916
Reaction score
239
Oh, so I awoke the Grouch Under the Bridge!

Festival Express DVD: Now the only reason I suggested that Lesh was playing a Bisonic-equiped EB-3 was because long ago you or a protagonist on the Guild Forum on the DudePit said there were Bisonics lurking below those stock Gibson chrome pickup covers on the EB-3. (And because it has twin sets of volume and treble knobs, as opposed to the single set on an EB-0). Unless it was a modded EB-0, though it doesn't look like it.

Please correct me if that is incorrect.

Or concede that I was right, yet again......... ;)
 

Happy Face

Justified Ancient of MuMu
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
916
Reaction score
239
I hauled out Blair Jackson's book and found that the youngster* MAY be right in that the original husk could have been an EB-0. But I was gratified to find that my memory was not totally out there.

In late spring 1969 - "He switched back to his solidbody SG-style Gibson EB-0 which had been hot-rodded itself, with the addition of Guild/Hagstrom pickups..."

I still not convinced that it is an EB-0 I am seeing there. It sure looks just like the EB-3 I played from 1969-1975 (before I went all Rick for 25 years). But there were quite a few EB-0s that were upgraded to EB-3s around. Often the placement of the extra pots is a giveaway, though not always.



*having recently celebrated my Beatles song birthday.
 

Happy Face

Justified Ancient of MuMu
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
916
Reaction score
239
It does/did have two pickups and four pots. That's a EB-3 setup. If it was an EB-0, it would only have one pickup and two pots. But it was not uncommon to find EB-0s converted over.

Just nitpicking!
 

mgod

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
568
Reaction score
237
Location
Los Angeles
Truly nitpicking. If you find pics of Phil in 65, you'll see that it's a single-pickup, two-potted EB-0.

Did you notice that in addition to the extra pots which were added, the pickup was totally different? That one had magically become two? It's almost as if the bass were somehow... I don't know... changed? And that the people who modified my fretless and did all those mods in the late 60s and early 70s before building their own instruments might have had the skill do that?

I've never heard of such a thing.
 

Happy Face

Justified Ancient of MuMu
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
916
Reaction score
239
As I said: "But it was not uncommon to find EB-0s converted over."
 

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,636
Location
New York
most pics i can find of Phils Gibson do show the chrome covers on the Wickersham pickups Mgod eludes to.

wTv0cc.jpg



Tpe2AE.jpg




But this one picture almost looks like the black covers on the Bisonics? maybe?

Oyudsh.png
 

Happy Face

Justified Ancient of MuMu
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
916
Reaction score
239
That's it. The video is real clear on the Festival Train dvd. I thought about getting my modded up EB-3 (or was it originally an EB-0?) with two Darkstars painted up in the same way. But I gave it away to a friend instead.

Didn't I buy that Gibson from one of you?
 

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,636
Location
New York
someone in the Alembic Club made a clone. A clone of what exactly, im not sure. Im not saying any of them are or are not Hagstom Bisonics. but the one picture looks like the black covers. Never seen the Festival Train DVD, myself. Anyway it seems like Phil Just sounds like Phil.

8WPkJq.jpg
 

mgod

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
568
Reaction score
237
Location
Los Angeles
From RT:

"Shielding. Hard to say whether it's foil (could be aluminum) or silver conductive paint. The unshielded portions of the bobbin are a bit of an issue with those pickups, but then so is the single coiledness of them, and shielding doesn't help that. It is possible to reverse polarity the magnet(s) in one pickup and flip the coil leads to then get humcancelling when both pickups are "on". I don't know if Bear or Ron did that on this bass. Note the big-*** cable connector. Probably a right angle XLR 5 pin unless it's something stupidly expensive and exotic! I think this was the first one to get the emitter followers mounted right on the pickups. Bear probably made the tailpiece.

RT"
 

mgod

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
568
Reaction score
237
Location
Los Angeles
I built one, too - not really trying to be like it - but... trying to be like it. I'd post a picture but, well, you know.
 
Top