Any experience with Newark St. Starfires?

Mark WW

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First of all excuse my ignorance. I have been unable to use the multi-quote feature and end up instead copy and pasting.

GAD said - As for the pickups being "mismatched" there's no need for quotes because they are and I can prove it empirically and mathematically. As for there being multiple volume controls, that's true, but the issue (for me at least) with the pickup debacle is the fact that these guitars are assembled and function differently than pretty much every other 2-humbucker guitar out there. Sure, you can work around the limitation using volume controls, but you shouldn't have to, especially on a guitar that retails for over $1000. But that doesn't offend me and neither does your post.


Really, though, what bugs me about the whole affair is that the guitars could be so much better with properly matched pickups. It's really inexcusable for Guild (multiple personalities included) to not fix this issue, to not recognize and admit the issue, and to further publish lies
about the issue to cover it up. THAT offends me.

GAD - I am kind of oblivious to lotsa stuff. And I totally get that Guild (Cordoba) should address this as many folks have been unsettled regarding this issue. But I do enjoy playing this guitar.

DV-72 NT said - Those are great looking guitars Mark!
I found the NS I played had one of the best necks on an electric that I've ever played (maybe it was the fingerboard radius? I dunno.)

I've never owned a floating bridge and wonder if I would have issues using a bit of a heavy hand/palm muting. I read a couple of reviews that state the bridge is pinned on these (NS), but surely that can't be the case? (My understanding of a pinned bridge is that the base, the rosewood portion on the NS, is attached to the top - no?)


DV-72 NT - Fingerboard radius just totally confuses me and I am beyond any ability to understand how it impacts playability despite many attempts at explaining. But yes the bridge is pinned on the NS and the neck is a wee bit less chunky as compared to the Corona. The Corona is a floating (no pins) bridge. I am a little heavy handed with my playing but rarely have an issue with floating bridges. I use some violin rosin or have also used some double backed tape or use nothing.

I love the lightness of the Starfire III's. Hope you find one you like.


 

DV-72 NT

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Thanks Mark! I tend to try to talk myself out of purchases but this one keeps talking back to me - and you're not making it any easier for me :biggrin-new:.
 

adorshki

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First of all excuse my ignorance. I have been unable to use the multi-quote feature and end up instead copy and pasting.

Mark it actually requires using two windows to cut out the extra quote(s) and a little juggling to make sure you have 'em referenced properly and not often really truly necessary, but don't feel bad, because ya actually have to kind of cheat to do it.
I'm not even sure it's possible in the mobile version of the site.
Obviously if playing your guitar's the important thing, then your priorities are straight....
And FWIW, I saw you use of quotes as reference to "common usage" as opposed to an expression of doubt about the accuracy of the observations.
Just one of those semantic things.
:friendly_wink:
 

fronobulax

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First of all excuse my ignorance. I have been unable to use the multi-quote feature and end up instead copy and pasting.

GAD said - As for the pickups being "mismatched" there's no need for quotes because they are and I can prove it empirically and mathematically. As for there being multiple volume controls, that's true, but the issue (for me at least) with the pickup debacle is the fact that these guitars are assembled and function differently than pretty much every other 2-humbucker guitar out there. Sure, you can work around the limitation using volume controls, but you shouldn't have to, especially on a guitar that retails for over $1000. But that doesn't offend me and neither does your post.


Really, though, what bugs me about the whole affair is that the guitars could be so much better with properly matched pickups. It's really inexcusable for Guild (multiple personalities included) to not fix this issue, to not recognize and admit the issue, and to further publish lies
about the issue to cover it up. THAT offends me.

GAD - I am kind of oblivious to lotsa stuff. And I totally get that Guild (Cordoba) should address this as many folks have been unsettled regarding this issue. But I do enjoy playing this guitar.



There isn't a straight forward multi-quote feature. I use copy paste and multiple windows on a laptop. My phone doesn't know LTG exists :)

I make a distinction between a product that does not work as designed and a properly implemented design that does not meet my needs or preferences. Thus I am a little uncomfortable with the rehashing of the PU mismatch. Since Guild insists that the PU specs are what they wanted/designed/asked for this is all a difference of opinion about Guild's decision and not the absolute error some folks try and make it into. My opinion, and folks who refuse to believe what Guild says obviously are going to disagree with me :)
 

GAD

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There isn't a straight forward multi-quote feature. I use copy paste and multiple windows on a laptop. My phone doesn't know LTG exists :)

I make a distinction between a product that does not work as designed and a properly implemented design that does not meet my needs or preferences. Thus I am a little uncomfortable with the rehashing of the PU mismatch. Since Guild insists that the PU specs are what they wanted/designed/asked for this is all a difference of opinion about Guild's decision and not the absolute error some folks try and make it into. My opinion, and folks who refuse to believe what Guild says obviously are going to disagree with me :)


I'm gonna stir the pot a bit here, be prepared.

Oh c'mon. You've been in the business world long enough to smell a marketing coverup and this just reeks of that.

There. Pot stirred. :devilish:
 

fronobulax

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I'm gonna stir the pot a bit here, be prepared.

Oh c'mon. You've been in the business world long enough to smell a marketing coverup and this just reeks of that.

There. Pot stirred. :devilish:

I'm sure someone, somewhere adopted the party line - not because they had the technically best or most marketable solution - but because the PR and dollar cost of declaring a mistake and fixing it were prohibitive. But the fact remains that they can still sell the product so the marketplace is not demanding the issue be addressed. Guild is making and selling the product they have chosen to ;-)
 

Mark WW

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Thanks guys for making me feel a little less challenged on the multi-quote. I spent quite a bit of time and finally just did the copy paste as suggested.
 

DrumBob

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I say it all the time; I have a recent Newark Street SF-IV with a stop tailpiece, and it's the best gigging guitar I own, by far. It looks great, plays great, sounds amazing, and the pickups are very evenly matched. No issues whatsoever. It does everything well. I can't say much else about it. It's a fantastic guitar that cost me $1100. I would have paid more for it.
 

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Frono, it was a mistake initially. That's not a design feature, it was a bug. So they have desided that that's the product they want to put out. <shrug>

At least the reissues are not encased in epoxy, so it it easy enough to have them rewound. Iirc, Fender had wound pups with 42 gauge around the same time, so their was a period in the 60s where there was a shortage of 43 guage?
 

adorshki

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Oh c'mon. You've been in the business world long enough to smell a marketing coverup and this just reeks of that.

1cmq9m.jpg
 

fronobulax

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Frono, it was a mistake initially. That's not a design feature, it was a bug.

First, what has Guild said publicly and not just in email or phone calls?

Second is it not true that Guild replicated the original pickup specs (and that was what FMIC had intended) and only later found out that the original specs in a handful of instruments were unbalanced and that was what they took their measurements from?

My obnoxiously pedantic point is they Guild did exactly what they said they would do - replicate the specs from a vintage instrument. The "problem" is that their baseline instrument was unbalanced. The marketplace does not seem to think that is a bug even though lots of vocal folks here disagree with the marketplace.
 

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First, what has Guild said publicly and not just in email or phone calls?

Second is it not true that Guild replicated the original pickup specs (and that was what FMIC had intended) and only later found out that the original specs in a handful of instruments were unbalanced and that was what they took their measurements from?

My obnoxiously pedantic point is they Guild did exactly what they said they would do - replicate the specs from a vintage instrument. The "problem" is that their baseline instrument was unbalanced. The marketplace does not seem to think that is a bug even though lots of vocal folks here disagree with the marketplace.

It is my understanding that the entire thing was caused by them reproducing a single mismatched pair that was not sourced from a guitar. I'm never heard that a handful of vintage instruments were similarly misconfigured. I'd love to see a source for that.

The market for the NS guitars is not people who obsess over fine details like, for example, the vintage or reissue Les Paul crowd. Or me. :wink-new: That's why "the market" lets them get away with it. These are low-priced instruments (comparatively) that target people who can't afford or get their hands on vintage models. I'll be a bit obnoxious and call the target audience for these instrument "the average consumer". In my experience having spent far too many years in retail, the average consumer is ambivalent at best and down right gullible more often than not. To the average consumer, this issue wouldn't even be noticed let alone complained about because they're just excited to have a Starfire or T-Bird regardless of whatever details people like me gripe about. I've seen this behavior in the average consumer more times than I can count and companies often capitalize on this behavior in a myriad of ways ranging from mostly benign to downright evil. IMO, the modern Guild company is doing exactly that, though sadly I would describe this behavior as normal business practice for most companies these days. That doesn't make it right, though.

My job as a reviewer is to point out these issues so that people can make a more informed decision. IMO Guild is trying to sweep the issue under the run under the guise of psuedo-science (read my write-up on it for details on why I say that), and that's not cool.
 

fronobulax

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It is my understanding that the entire thing was caused by them reproducing a single mismatched pair that was not sourced from a guitar. I'm never heard that a handful of vintage instruments were similarly misconfigured. I'd love to see a source for that.

The market for the NS guitars is not people who obsess over fine details like, for example, the vintage or reissue Les Paul crowd. Or me. :wink-new:

My sources are LTG posts or in person conversations with LTG members. My recollection, perhaps incorrect, is that after the mismatched PUs were attributed to an allegedly defective vintage guitar used as a template there were several reports of vintage instruments that were similarly mismatched.

I think we are in violent agreement that LTG members are not the target market, or a large part of that market, for NS Guilds.

Perhaps an analogy, since I can't seem to shut up?

You write a book on networking using Cisco hardware. I review it and I say it sucks because you fail to address the ramifications of non-Cisco hardware in a non-heterogeneous SDN network. (Yes I am making things up :) )

Does your book suck or not? Yes because you did not write the book I wanted. No because you wrote the book you wanted. So the question comes down to opinions based upon intention and expectations and not objective fact :)
 

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I will let GAD and frono hash this one out, and I hope it is all in the spirit of friendship – didn’t mean to open an ugly can of worms here. :culpability:

I would consider myself to be an “average consumer” since I just can’t justify (for me) the purchase of a higher priced vintage. But to the contrary of being “gullible”, a steady diet of advertising hype for 60 + years has actually made me extremely skeptical and at times downright cynical towards most, if not all, advertising claims (and we can throw news in there too – but that’s another story).

For the record, I went back a second time to try out the NS Starfire paying particular attention to the pickup discrepancy. I really didn’t notice much of an issue, though I wasn’t able to test at loud levels. I certainly could live with them.
 

SFIV1967

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I have been unable to use the multi-quote feature and end up instead copy and pasting.

There isn't a straight forward multi-quote feature. I use copy paste and multiple windows on a laptop.
Excuse me Frono. You don't know how to Multiquote? Look at that little quote sign with the + next to it just right of "Reply" and "Reply With Quote" just at the right hand bottom of each message, yes, that is the "Multi-Quote this Message" button! So you hit the multiquote first for how many messages you want to multiquote and last the Reply with Quote and afterwards you can (should) delete what you don't want to quote.

Ralf
 

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My sources are LTG posts or in person conversations with LTG members. My recollection, perhaps incorrect, is that after the mismatched PUs were attributed to an allegedly defective vintage guitar used as a template there were several reports of vintage instruments that were similarly mismatched.

I think we are in violent agreement that LTG members are not the target market, or a large part of that market, for NS Guilds.

Perhaps an analogy, since I can't seem to shut up?

You write a book on networking using Cisco hardware. I review it and I say it sucks because you fail to address the ramifications of non-Cisco hardware in a non-heterogeneous SDN network. (Yes I am making things up :) )

Does your book suck or not? Yes because you did not write the book I wanted. No because you wrote the book you wanted. So the question comes down to opinions based upon intention and expectations and not objective fact :)


I'm not sure your analogy is relevant. I've had almost exactly that feedback, too! Hey wait a minute - was that you? :playful: FWIW, I don't believe it was their intention to make guitars with odd pickup specs. I do believe they've purposely not fixed the issue, though, and published vague "science" to make people believe that their mistake was intended. That's what grinds my gears.

I'd argue it's more like Dodge releasing a modern version of the Challenger (let's say an SRT8) that should have 245/45R20 tires on the front and 255/45R20s on the rear but instead they ship with the tires reversed. Instead of fixing the issue, they publish a letter on the Internet saying that wider tires may actually improve handling but don't say that they messed up and that the larger tires should be in the rear. Now the average driver would likely never notice the difference. I mean it's only 10mm, right? A seasoned driver or enthusiast would likely notice right away that something wasn't right. Hell, they'd probably notice the notation on the tire before they even got in for a test drive. I'd be willing to bet that it would also be covered in every car mag out there.

I'm not suggesting that a pickup imbalance is a safety issue unless you happen to be in a thread where you and I discuss it :wink-new: but to me it's the same thing. No one would make a guitar the way Guild is currently making them and offering up the explanation they did does nothing to convince me that they're being up front about the issue.
 

GAD

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I will let GAD and frono hash this one out, and I hope it is all in the spirit of friendship – didn’t mean to open an ugly can of worms here. :culpability:

I would consider myself to be an “average consumer” since I just can’t justify (for me) the purchase of a higher priced vintage. But to the contrary of being “gullible”, a steady diet of advertising hype for 60 + years has actually made me extremely skeptical and at times downright cynical towards most, if not all, advertising claims (and we can throw news in there too – but that’s another story).

For the record, I went back a second time to try out the NS Starfire paying particular attention to the pickup discrepancy. I really didn’t notice much of an issue, though I wasn’t able to test at loud levels. I certainly could live with them.

I bear no ill will against Frono unless he starts up the whole wiki vs. knowledge base thing again. Then it's go time!
 

GuildFS4612CE

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Excuse me Frono. You don't know how to Multiquote? Look at that little quote sign with the + next to it just right of "Reply" and "Reply With Quote" just at the right hand bottom of each message, yes, that is the "Multi-Quote this Message" button! So you hit the multiquote first for how many messages you want to multiquote and last the Reply with Quote and afterwards you can (should) delete what you don't want to quote.

Ralf

Thanks, Ralf...:applause:just wanted to note this before it gets lost in the debate...maybe Frono can make it a sticky somewhere...
 

fronobulax

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Excuse me Frono. You don't know how to Multiquote? Look at that little quote sign with the + next to it just right of "Reply" and "Reply With Quote" just at the right hand bottom of each message, yes, that is the "Multi-Quote this Message" button! So you hit the multiquote first for how many messages you want to multiquote and last the Reply with Quote and afterwards you can (should) delete what you don't want to quote.

Ralf

I don't. I guess I'll try it next time.
 
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