The Mystery Guild, prepare for the weird...

chazmo

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I'm sorry that re-hydrating the guitar is causing some seemingly negative progress, GA, but I guess it's not too surprising since the wood is expanding. Probably a LOT.

Maybe a brace or two gave way (or was already off) and there's just nothing to help it go back to its original shape. That said, I still think this is the best approach to getting the thing (possibly) into workable shape.

I've seen humidification bring down the worst belly I ever saw, but that guitar had a separated brace that had already given way while it was dried out. I honestly don't know what will happen with this completely misshapen soundboard.

Anyway, I'm glad it's "alive." That thing is a true mutant.
 

Guildedagain

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adorshki

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We're probably talking past each other.

I was not willing to say that all Guilds with the name officially appended to the model number were Adi topped. That may be true but I don't know so I was deliberately avoiding the suggestion, which you seem to be asserting.
Yes, but only for Tacoma and New Hartford, as I'm not sure about Oxnard..in fact they don't appear to be offering any adi tops, which may also correlate with the absence of "name" models.
Also was making the semantic distinction between " as did new Hartford" and "continued what Tacoma started", in reviving the old "names" on adi-topped versions of the instruments only.
It is possible they released adi-topped instruments in the GSR models that were given other names because they were GSR's, but can't recall any off the top of my head.
Anyway, bottom line was that adi was not available on the "Standards" in NH.



As you may recall Mrs. Fro. did an A/B hands on comparison between the F30 Stardard and F30 Traditional at one of the LMGs in New Hartford. Consequently I remember the differences rather well. The F30 Traditional has a 1 11/16" nut. The F30 Standard has a 1 3/4" nut.... I'm not sure you intended to say "And 1-3/4" nuts were only offered on the Aragon version of F30 in NH."
:)
You're so right, got my specs mixed up.
As you've correctly pointed out the 1-3/4" nut was only offered on the "Standard F30".
I was looking at too many different specs yesterday, methinks, as I was also refreshing on the CO/CV's from Tacoma....because you could get a Cedar-topped F30 body that way...but I've already forgotten how wide the nut was....
 

adorshki

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It's definitely alive.
NVCXVOBUDM.JPG

At this point I really need the forum to help bring it back.
You're sure about that?
A bridge fix might be in order. I have a longtime friend and neighbor who's a luthier who can do anything,
I'd try a bridge doctor on one of mine if I thought it was an appropriate application.
And I'd definitely consult with your neighbor on how to determine if the bridge is in the correct plane with the fretboard, and go from there.
I'm not sure I want this thing over at his house... In fact, I'm pretty sure I don't want to leave it at his house.
Maybe you could do the medieval thing of exchanging hostages to ensure safe returns?
If you decide maybe you'd like to go ahead and farm it out, ask us about forum member Fixit.
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?198179-OGD-F-30-in-need-of-TLC&highlight=Fixit
 

Grassdog

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Not meaning to be a downer, but if you're still within the return period I'd advise sending it back and taking a chance on another one. There's an awful lot messed up with that guitar.
 

Rayk

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Interesting , has anyone noticed that there doesn't seem to be any checks in the Nitro or any other crack .
 

Bonneville88

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With all due respect, I'm with Grassdog - you still have a few days, right?

There's better ones - or will be - out there for the same $$ or perhaps even a bit less...

IMO, the extent of the damage was not at all evident in the sellers auction photos.
 
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bobouz

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Honestly, after seeing your second round of pics, if it had come to me in that condition, I would be returning it.

A few odd creases under the right light is typically not a big deal. But this guitar has been subjected to an extreme environmental upheaval of one sort or another. The condition is so far beyond normal that it's status should have been fully disclosed, and adequate pics should've been provided for potential buyers so they would know what to expect.

F-30s come up for sale on a fairly regular basis. You most certainly can do better than this one.
 

chazmo

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GA, I think you've heard our advice. Other than Neal, who has rescued some of the worst-looking beasts we've seen on this board, I doubt any of us would truly recommend keeping this axe with any expectations of coming out on top or for that matter even close to even on this deal. Some of us have restored guitars that needed soundboard replacements and/or complete box disassembly, but you have to decide what it's worth to YOU.

All that said, I wish you the best. It sounds like you want to have some fun with this, and the good news is that you really can't hurt this thing... so have at it.
 

Guildedagain

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Thx Chaz. The head says one thing, and the heart another...

I had the Acerbis Enduro mirror in it today, much better than I expected. The bridge plate is Rosewood?

The more I tinker with it, the more blown away I am by it. The Mahogany sides are highly figured, I haven't seen anything like that since a certain Grail Les Paul I once had.

It's actually fairly minty besides the sightly collapsed top.

I'm hydrating it for two weeks with strings off. Will be checking out the underside of the top better in the meantime.

According to these folks, it hasn't been played in 40 years, 40 years in the case drying up, like a mummy. Has a name even, Aragorn ;-)

It really does look like the pickguard melted into the top over the years.

Sending it back would be smart, so I can buy a certain F-20 on the forum, that would be smart, but I can't return it, it won't let me.

Trying to work something out with the seller, that should make it ok.
 
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Rayk

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Honestly, after seeing your second round of pics, if it had come to me in that condition, I would be returning it.

A few odd creases under the right light is typically not a big deal. But this guitar has been subjected to an extreme environmental upheaval of one sort or another. The condition is so far beyond normal that it's status should have been fully disclosed, and adequate pics should've been provided for potential buyers so they would know what to expect.

F-30s come up for sale on a fairly regular basis. You most certainly can do better than this one.

Yeah , Billy selling his F30r in Fs/fx that would be a nice score !

And I believe BeeCee is selling his as well . Both in a time when F30R's are in short supply . 😁
 

Guildedagain

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Ahhh Geez... Not that again, I need a "screen saver", lol.

Ok, so I'm inside it yesterday, looking around, a lot of glue at the edge of the body of at the upper corner of the pickguard, all around sound hole, and what looks like a piece of maple glued under the lower part of the pickguard, as well as the bridge plate looks like a laminate of three layers, the lowest one being Rosewood? Is any of this commonly seen inside old guitars?

Under the pick guard and edge of upper bout.

large.jpg


Under the lower part of the pickguard, a reinforcing plate? Is this a repairman add on?

large.jpg


Under bridge plate, I see three layers under the top, is this normal, is this bad for tone?

large.jpg


large.jpg
 

adorshki

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as well as the bridge plate looks like a laminate of three layers, the lowest one being Rosewood? Is any of this commonly seen inside old guitars?
Speaking only for what I've seen here over the years, can't recall seeing a laminated bridge plate, but the 2 woods cited have been rosewood and maple.
I've bnever seen anything correlating use of one or the other with a a particular model for a specified period, only references to it being dffferent in the same model from different years.
As far as I can recall there's nothing about it in Hans' book.
FWIW the beveled edge looks clean enough to be "factory" in my opinion, but pics of bracing are pretty darn rare around here in the first place (for which, BTW, thanks very much!)
Under the lower part of the pickguard, a reinforcing plate? Is this a repairman add on?
Never seen anything like that, so suspect "yes".
It also occurs to me that if all that glue-slop's associated with that cleat (and maybe the bridge too?), that further tends to confirm it.
I can't believe anybody in Westerly did that.
Under bridge plate, I see three layers under the top, is this normal, is this bad for tone?
Is it "normal"?
Tough call, I think only Hans could answer that, or somebody who's got another F30 with s/n really close to yours showing the same bridgeplate construction.
"Bad for tone?" Again too many variables, but if it added mass to a thinly-designed bridge it could be an enhancer.
If it was done by Guild intentionally then I'd trust 'em to have done it with plenty of forethought.
Maybe they were having a problem with bridgeplates cracking, for example, and that would be a fix for that issue.
 
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Guildedagain

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It's fascinating, except, I was supposed to be playing a guitar, not trying to be the history detective of a 48 year old guitar that already had a major facelift at some point.

I agree, besides enough glue to build a small wooden ship, the pieces used look a lot better than some of the homeowner fixes Dan Erlewine's pulled out of a coupe guitars.

That much glue makes me think it might hurt its resonance (and so do pickguards? ;-) but I tap tested it for tone all over the place, and compared to my D35, it's very similar, besides having a deeper tone than the dread, but on both guitars the upper bouts are quite dead, and all of the magic happens around the bridge, both above and below, it's like a tapping a drum.

The guitar has to be strung to pitch to hear it properly. When the strings begin to vibrate, you can hear it quite clearly as they drive the top a little, a very clear fundamental tone, or resonance.

The vibrating strings drive a diaphragm (the top), creating air pressure disturbances within an enclosure (the body). Pressure waves escape through the soundhole and disturb the air outside the guitar; ambient air disturbances are sensed by the ear. Relationships between string energy, top surface area, and enclosed air volume largely determine the characteristic sound of a guitar. Change any variable, and the efficiency and character of the system is altered.
 

Guildedagain

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The nut is def not bone, I had to reslot the 6th string groove a tiny bit, some 70's plastic replacement?

The nut could be the only thing really holding this one back...
 
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