Best "Les Pauls" Ever?!?

mountainpix

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[NOTE: Reposting this after the mass disappearance of recent posts from the first week of Oct 2019]

After owning Gibson LPs that I loved from the 70s, 80s, and 00s, and playing a bunch more, I have recently come to the conclusion that my '89 Nightbird (HB-1s) and '97 Bluesbird ("59s") are both better guitars (for me) than any Gibson I've ever played. They can do the LP tones, but so much more (especially the Nightbird – what an incredibly versatile instrument!), and they are absolutely rock solid in terms of build, finish, stability, etc. They play like butter!
I recently took them to my local vintage guitar shop and played them against very expensive vintage LPs and historic reissues, and while the Gibsons were great guitars, the Guilds were at least as good as some, and quite a bit better (for one reason or another) than others.
And talk about good value! The very nicest Nightbirds cost about the same as or less than a run-of-the-mill LP Custom in decent condition, while the Westerly-built Bluesbirds in particular are a serious bargain, often costing at least $1k less than a LP Standard of similar quality and condition.
What a pity it is that the folks at Guild never achieved the recognition and success they should have for making such fine electric guitars.
 

adorshki

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How'd I miss this?
Oh yeah, forgot first few new member posts get vetted by mods to make sure you're a rela person.
Suspect you'll be on "real time" now.
Glad to see you figured out "wha' happen?"!
Gorgeous pieces, both.
Cherry was always my favorite finish color and Cherry Sunburst my favorite 'burst!
 
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DrumBob

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I think the best Les Pauls are Les Pauls. Bluesbirds are not Les Pauls.
 

Default

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Well, there are plenty of chambered Les Pauls floating around, so the OP is technically correct. I should not lust after one.

At least, that's what my wallet says.
 

Quantum Strummer

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Ah, I remember this thread…think I posted something in it too before it was lost. I don't have any experience with post-'70s Bluesbirds beyond playing a few acoustically in music stores, but my Nightbird is a fab instrument for sure. Has a similar feel to an LP but sonically is a little lighter in the mids…which can be a good thing. I'm currently using mine as a pickup testing "mule," aiming to find out which set of replacement pickups I have on hand suits it best. (It came to me with a set of DiMarzios, which I finally gave up on last year.) They all sound really good so it's gonna be a tough decision!

-Dave-
 

mountainpix

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I’ll be interested to know your thoughts about the various pickups you test in the Nightbird. Mine has pre-Fender Guild HB-1s in it, which sound fantastic. I’d curious what it would sound like with PAFs, or even Filtertrons.
 

JF-30

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[NOTE: Reposting this after the mass disappearance of recent posts from the first week of Oct 2019]

After owning Gibson LPs that I loved from the 70s, 80s, and 00s, and playing a bunch more, I have recently come to the conclusion that my '89 Nightbird (HB-1s) and '97 Bluesbird ("59s") are both better guitars (for me) than any Gibson I've ever played. They can do the LP tones, but so much more (especially the Nightbird – what an incredibly versatile instrument!), and they are absolutely rock solid in terms of build, finish, stability, etc. They play like butter!
I recently took them to my local vintage guitar shop and played them against very expensive vintage LPs and historic reissues, and while the Gibsons were great guitars, the Guilds were at least as good as some, and quite a bit better (for one reason or another) than others.
And talk about good value! The very nicest Nightbirds cost about the same as or less than a run-of-the-mill LP Custom in decent condition, while the Westerly-built Bluesbirds in particular are a serious bargain, often costing at least $1k less than a LP Standard of similar quality and condition.
What a pity it is that the folks at Guild never achieved the recognition and success they should have for making such fine electric guitars.

Are they the same wood as a Gibby LP? Hog with a maple cap?
 

DThomasC

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Are they the same wood as a Gibby LP? Hog with a maple cap?

Yes, similar materials. The Guild bodies are a little larger, but the biggest difference is that the Bluesbirds and Nightbirds are chambered; a significant amount of the hog back is routed away before the maple cap is glued on. This is what keeps many people from comparing the two directly. FWIW, except for a relatively small amount of wood removed directly under the bridge, and a channel for the pickup selector wiring,, the hog back is a solid piece from the tailpiece all the way up to the neck. Below is an x-ray of a Corona made Bluebird P-90 captured by one of our members. I'm deeply ashamed that I don't remember who, but I'm sure someone will remind us.

(EDIT: It was K.O.M.A.! I suddenly remembered. Sorry about that K.O.M.A.)

Below that is a photo from a Nightbird brochure showing how it was routed. Although we have good evidence of the routing of the Corona made instruments, I don't recall ever seeing comparible evidence for the Westerly made Bluesbirds or that the Nightbirds were identical to the Bluesbirds.

The bottom photo is an x-ray of a chambered LP. I have no recollection where I got it.

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Quantum Strummer

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I’ll be interested to know your thoughts about the various pickups you test in the Nightbird. Mine has pre-Fender Guild HB-1s in it, which sound fantastic. I’d curious what it would sound like with PAFs, or even Filtertrons.

Two of the pickup sets I've tried are ThroBak PAF-alikes and TV Jones Classics (in "English mount"). The ThroBaks were wound on the same Stevens 115 winder Gibson used for many early PAFs and also P90s from the same period. They sound great: clear, open, extended treble, nice bass warmth. The Classics give the guitar more of a Gretsch Duo Jet vibe: warmer overall, more mid-focused than the ThroBaks. The Classics are currently in the Nightbird, and I'm leaning toward leaving 'em there.

-Dave-
 
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Bernie

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Has the Guild Guitars Company made 'Les Paul shaped' chambered electrics before Gibson did, as it seems from this thread ?
 

fronobulax

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Has the Guild Guitars Company made 'Les Paul shaped' chambered electrics before Gibson did, as it seems from this thread ?

First Les Paul guitar was made in 1952. Guild was founded in 1952 but didn't produce any guitars that year. So the answer to your question would seem to be No. I am also not interpreting any of the comments to claim otherwise.
 

walrus

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First Les Paul guitar was made in 1952. Guild was founded in 1952 but didn't produce any guitars that year. So the answer to your question would seem to be No. I am also not interpreting any of the comments to claim otherwise.


I think Bernie was asking abut the Les Paul shaped guitar being "chambered", in which case the answer may be yes...

walrus
 

GAD

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I believe the first chambered Les Paul was the Cloud 9 series in 2004. They had been weight-relieving for years which is a swiss-cheese type of drilling, but I think chambered Les Pauls are relatively uncommon. The supremes and Elegants I think were chambered, too:

ris._9_0.jpg

And I believe this is the Cloud-9 body:

Chambered-Weight-Relief-LP.jpg
 

DThomasC

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Has the Guild Guitars Company made 'Les Paul shaped' chambered electrics before Gibson did, as it seems from this thread ?

When Mr. Les Paul was deciding what to make his new solid body guitar look like, he undoubtedly was thinking of a traditional archtop shape, but more compact.

In the 1950's Guild first released the Aristocrat, a fully hollow archtop guitar that was about the same size as a Les Paul, which unsurprisingly resembles a Les Paul since they were both styled after full size archtops.

In the mid to late 1980's George Gruhn designed the Guild Nightbird. It had a chambered mahogany body with a carved spruce top. I hold it as self-evident that Mr. Gruhn styled the guitar after a full sized archtop. Later Nightbirds were available with a maple top instead of spruce. Guild later re-released the Nightbird as the Bluesbird in a less blingy form.

Is the Bluesbird "Les Paul shaped?" Well, yes, but only in the sense that both are shaped like small archtops.
 
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Bernie

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I think Bernie was asking abut the Les Paul shaped guitar being "chambered", in which case the answer may be yes...

walrus

Right Walrus, that's what my question was all about 'Les Paul shaped' chambered electrics...

During my electric years it was quite common ro hear that Les Pauls (Gibson) were heavy, and at the time, I don't think that chambered Gibsons existed...Since then I have gone Fender, and most of all, became more of a singer (solitary one, as my colleagues never wanted to play my songs -!- :smile-new: ) ; and then basically became more of an acoustic guitar player...(I haven't been involved much with electrics after that).

I first heard of a chambered Les Paul (by Gibson) when invited to a Gibson Road Show in early 2010s...They were launching a new ruh of chamberedar LPs at the time (quite different from any shown here), and I thought it was their first time in doing so I believe...I realized, reading this thread, that they had done others before, but too that Guild started very early to build chambered ('Les Paul shaped') electrics.. Therefore my question.

Thanks all for your imput :smile-new:
Bernie
 

matsickma

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If I recall correctly when Gibson released the Les Paul they wanted to not only have the new solid body guitar but also demonstrate their new advanced manufacturing capability used to produce the arched cap.
Other guitar manufacturers couldn't duplicate the arched cap LesPaul. In response Guild introduce the M75 style body and Aristocrat as a scaled down Mini X175 and later followed with less expensive M65 Freshman. In the 80's Gruhn wanted to have the new Guild solid bodies utilize the hollow heritage of the M75 Aristocrats and the later M75 humbucker Bluesbirds and the routed "solid body" Nightbird and Nightingale were released.
 

matsickma

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I should add that the Guild M75 and M65 used the techniques they had at the time which was building archtop jazz guitars. They didn't have solid body instruments and likely didn't want to make solid body guitars. However they did wan to off a Mini sized guitar to compete with Gibson.
M
 

JF-30

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After you play a real LP you are supposed to go to your chiropractor for an adjustment.
 
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