Re-glueing the bridge on a 1973 Westerly F212XL

Rob Reilly

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A month ago I was playing my 1973 Westerly F212XL in church, and during the last song I felt it pop and then it was all out of tune. I had noticed it was hard to tune earlier that morning.

Looking it over I found there was a gap at the back of the bridge maybe 1/16" wide.
I got the bridge off ok with a thin putty knife and a small heating iron normally used on model airplanes.
There is a shallow unfinished area of the top for the bridge to sit down in.
There are also two tiny alignment holes in the top and the bridge, about the size of the wire used in heavy paper clips.
I presume this was done by Westerly.

I have Titebond Genuine Hide Glue.
I have a deep throat clamp and some wood blocks, one to go inside between the X braces with plastic wrap to keep glue off it, and one with adjustment screws and pads to hold the bridge.

The question for today is this: how to keep glue from getting in the 12 pin holes?
I'm thinking of putting plastic straws in the holes.

Any more tips before I glue the bridge down?
 

geoguy

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Not that I've ever performed this repair before, but I would probably protect the inside of the guitar from wet-glue drips, and plan on gently reaming excess glue out of the bridge-pin holes after the glue has dried.

A pipe-cleaner (do they still make those?) or Q-tip might help you swab excess liquid glue out of the holes before the glue dries. But it would be easy to smear wet glue on the visible part of the bridge when doing so.

Good on ya for tackling this repair yourself!
 

Br1ck

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Not familiar with the Titebond product, but I'd be wary of anything called hide glue that doesn't need to be heated in a pot. Does the bridge fit the footprint exactly? I've seen instances where the bridge is larger by an eighth inch or so. You want 100% bare wood to bare wood with all glue scraped off both surfaces. Do yo have a pin reamer? That would clean up any glue. Lots of YouTube videos on this.
 

adorshki

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Not familiar with the Titebond product, but I'd be wary of anything called hide glue that doesn't need to be heated in a pot. Does the bridge fit the footprint exactly? I've seen instances where the bridge is larger by an eighth inch or so.
In fact that's how they did it in Westerly:
They finished the tops before installing the bridge, and masked off an area with a slightly smaller footprint than the bridge itself for the glue pad.
Hans explained that many years ago as a cause of some cases of very slight bridge lift:
The glue bond to the finish is stronger than the finish bond to the top, so sometimes the stress on the back of the bridge does pull up the finish which creates a small gap.
I've got it on my F65ce, and it's been stable for around ten years at least.
It occurs to me now that that may not have been the practice for all of the Westerly years.
You want 100% bare wood to bare wood with all glue scraped off both surfaces.

Yep, no argument there, and good to mention to the OP because gluing to old glue will not yield a strong enough bond for the purpose, and why the task may better suited to a pro who has the appropriate tools for the task.
Also, in Westerly, their method was used to ensure nice clean edges around the bridge every time.
Purely cosmetic.
:friendly_wink:
 

davismanLV

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Best adhesion is wood to wood. Wood to finish or to old glue, not so great. Sometimes when the bridge pops off it takes some of the soundboard with it, which can help you to seat the bridge in the proper place (like a puzzle piece) but if there's not enough bare wood on bare wood, I'd make sure both sides are as clean and as much exposed wood as you can get. I'm not that familiar with hide glue, but with wood glues, you brush a light coat on both sides and let them partially set up for a bit. If glue is squeezing out in places you've used too much. As the glue starts to set, it gets more firm and doesn't gush as much. Protect the inside of the guitar from drips. All other drips and runs (shouldn't be any or hardly any) you wait until the glue dries, and tap it with a small blade or knife and it will come right off. If hide glue is seriously different behaving from wood glue, then I guess I don't know. Don't use too much glue.
 

adorshki

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If hide glue is seriously different behaving from wood glue, then I guess I don't know. Don't use too much glue.
Addressed here:
http://esomogyi.com/titebond-vs-hide-glue/
"In the case of the newer glues such as Titebond, these grab onto the materials they come into contact with by means of penetrative adhesion: they sink into wood fibers and grab hold....
Hide glue, on the other hand, achieves its results by molecular bonding. Titebond won’t hold very well onto something it cannot penetrate, such as glass. But hide glue will. In fact, it’ll hold on like a barnacle on a ship’s hull."

:friendly_wink:
 

AcornHouse

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As regards the Titebond Hide Glue, DON’T USE IT!!!!!
The various liquid hide glues are able to stay liquid at room temperature by adding urea to traditional hide glue. This causes it to develop what’s known as “creep”. In other words, it will move under pressure. Not to the extant of coming off, but it will gradually shift where it lies on the guitar.

The only non-hot hide glue that is commonly used in the guitar building community is Titebond Original. (II and III also have issues.) Make sure you clean (scrape/sand) the surfaces of any remaining old glue, since it will not stick to it. Also, make sure there are no lacquered edges under the bridge, the glue will not stick to it either, and will be a wear point.

As far as getting glue in the bridge pin holes, don’t worry. Be more concerned about any drips going down on the back. The pin holes can be cleaned with a reamer. Remember, they aren’t cylindrical, but conical to match the taper of the pins. While a matching taper reamer is best, you can get by with a small round file that has a similar taper. Test the bridge pins fit after so you don’t go too far.
 

Brucebubs

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Lots of good advice here.

I've glued together 4 kit guitars myself and had fun learning along the way.

- Good clean wood to wood (learned that the hard way!)
- Titebond Original
- lightly reamed pin holes when glue has dried and clamp removed

As I clamped down the bridge I kept a clean damp rag (water only) handy to wipe away the excess glue that squeezed out
 
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Rob Reilly

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I realize this is an old thread, but I have some results to report. Tried the hot hide glue, failed after a month. Other things in life interfered, my wife passed away, and I put the instrument away in the case for a year. Recently I redid the job, this time using an X-Acto knife to score around the bridge perimeter and cut away the tiny amount of cellulose edge finish that may have been under the bridge from the original factory work. Scraped away the old glue and sanded the area flat so I got good contact in all the bridge area. Also sanded the back of the ebony bridge to rough it up. There is a bridge backing piece inside BTW which looks like ebony or rosewood, about 1/8" thick, fits in between the X bracing. Used Titebond Original, thin smeared all over both contact faces, wood caul inside, C-clamps and bridge clamp bar, wiped excess with wet towel, 24 hour cure. Seems to be holding fine and stays in tune. Plays fine. Back in service. Or do we say back in the saddle?
pict0001.JPG
 

Cougar

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Great to have that jumbo 12er back in service!

p.s. Do those XK's leak oil?

Ha. My dad restored an MGTD that I drove around in high school (I see a couple of those up there, along with a Morgan...). He also picked up a Jag XK120 that I would have liked, but he never got around to restoring that one. Much later I had a couple XJS's. They both leaked oil, lol.
 

davismanLV

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Reilly, condolences on the loss of your wife. I'm so very sorry.

Sounds like you did it right. That ebony or rosewood piece between the X-braces is called the bridge plate and keeps the ball ends of the strings from tearing up the much softer spruce of the top wood. Looks like you did a great job. Original Titebond is good stuff. I've used it for years. That display case it keeping me very busy right now!! (y) And thanks for following up with us!!
 

Rob Reilly

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Thanks very much for your kind words.
No, the cars in the display case don't leak, but the British cars headlights don't work, the Italian cars don't run, and the German cars never have anything go wrong with them, but they don't have that raspy exhaust note either. 😉
I hope this link works.
I'll be playing the F212XL on this channel tomorrow Sunday Dec 20 at about 10:30 AM Central Standard USA time.
 

Rob Reilly

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Here's a revised uploaded link.


I'm on playing three songs from 11:20 to 19:00 and 55:45 to the end.
There was supposed to be a guitar intro on the second song but the piano player forgot and came in with me. 😁
 
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