Is this just glue or is my bridge staring to lift?

JF-30

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SSeOpVO.jpg
 

beecee

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Looks ok to me, but check the left, (bass), side can you slip a sheet of paper or business card under?

Nice bridge pins btw!
 

JF-30

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Looks ok to me, but check the left, (bass), side can you slip a sheet of paper or business card under?

Nice bridge pins btw!

I can not slip paper under it. I got the Rosewood pins on line. I hate plastic ones. Wood or what ever material may or may not not do anything (people say it changes the sound), but I like to looks of real wood pins.
 

wileypickett

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I agree the wood pins look good!

However, it looks like they're not properly seated. I recommend you ream the holes slightly so they'll go all the way in. If they're fitted properly, you should be able to pull the bridge pins out by hand when the strings are slack, like when you're changing strings. If they're too tight to do that, they're too tight.

People have a tendency to push the pins in when changing strings, which, if they're too big for the string holes, can have the effect of cracking the bridge.
 

davismanLV

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They didn't glue all the way to the edge on the bridge anyway, so a LITTLE space around the outside is okay. I don't see any lifting. Maybe just the schmutz of life that gets caught in the space? Or maybe it's been reglued in the past? You don't say if you're the original owner, but it looks good to me. I do like the wooden pins as well. And when I restring, I seat all the strings by reaching inside the soundhole and making sure they're snug up against the pins. Then restring as usual. Looks fine to me....
 

kostask

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Instead of reaming out the bridge holes. sand the bridge pins down a bit. You can always get new bridge pins, but reaming out holes in a bridge (and by extension, the bridge plate) is to be avoided when possible. To be honest, I don't really see a problem with the bridge pins they way they are.

The whole "bridge pins make a sound difference" is open to debate. I personally do not believe that the bridge pins make a difference due to their material (in a properly made guitar, there should not be any vibration of the strings past the bridge saddle), but the weight difference of the various bridge pin materials may make the slightest difference. How audible that difference is is also debatable.
 
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adorshki

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Yeah if you can't get a piece of paper under there, you're fine.
In Westerly they finished the tops before installing the bridge, and masked off an area with a slightly smaller footprint than the bridge itself for the glue pad.
That's what Tom meant by "Didn't glue all the way to the edges".
Actually they did, but there was always an overlap of the bridge glue on the finish.
The glue bond to the finish is stronger than the finish bond to the top, so sometimes the stress on the back of the bridge does pull up the finish which creates a small gap.
I've got it on my F65ce, and it's been stable for around ten years at least.
Traced the bridge outline onto a piece of paper as a template to keep track over the years.
Can't fit anything thicker than cheap copy paper under it to about 3/16" at the corners and "points", and only about 1/16" max along the curves.
If you can get a business card in there then I'd suspect a "genuine" problem.
:friendly_wink:
 
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JF-30

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I am not the original owner. I got the guitar last December when I traded my Gibson LP Trad Pro II for it.
 

davismanLV

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Agree with kostask on the "sand down the pins" thing. Those are easily changeable and unless you measure super carefully and accurately, you could end up reaming a hole in your bridge and bridge plate to fit a slightly oversized pin!! See if any of the other pins fit down in the hole better just to see.....
 

wileypickett

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Whether you ream the pin holes or sand the pins, you shouldn't have to force the pins in. Without the strings in, the pins should drop all the way down into the string holes. What holds them in place are the ball ends of the strings pushing against the narrow end of the pin and the bridge plate, as the strings are tuned to pitch, not the tightness of the pin in the hole.

I learned this from the late Jim Mouradian, for several decades one of New England's most revered guitar repairmen and a consultant for the musical instrument collection at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts.

The first time I brought a guitar to him with the pins sticking out, 35+ years or so ago now, he reamed all six holes in about 20 seconds and ramped two of the string slots with a pull saw in about the same amount of time! (He was able to hear, just by playing the open strings, that the volume on two of the six strings was not equal to the volume of the other four.)

He could do repairs like this so quickly, he sometimes wouldn't even take the guitar in, which in the normal course of his work might take him a month to get to. He'd look at the guitar, know what was wrong with it, put it on his bench, fix it and hand it back to you, and half the time wouldn't even charge for his work! (I bought him a bottle of wine as a xmas present a few years running.)

Every acoustic and electric player in Boston went to this guy -- he's greatly missed.
 

adorshki

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Agree with kostask on the "sand down the pins" thing. Those are easily changeable and unless you measure super carefully and accurately, you could end up reaming a hole in your bridge and bridge plate to fit a slightly oversized pin!! See if any of the other pins fit down in the hole better just to see.....
It probably wouldn't surprise most of you to hear that I number my pins with a fine-point felt marker to ensure they always go back to the right hole.
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:glee:
 

Brucebubs

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If the pins sit perfectly with no strings then another easy fix is to lengthen the slot in the pin a little.
My pins sat unevenly on my Huss & Dalton, the binding on the string end was catching on the pin collars so I used a Diamond Burr Alloy Grinding Head attachment on my Dremel to lengthen the slots in the pin - didn't touch the guitar.

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Pin on the left has extended slot compared with pin on right.

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D30Man

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Holy sh&@ Al!!! Why am I not surprised??? I love it. You sir are my hero..
 

JF-30

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I took a few of my guitars to a luthier this weekend for piece of mind. The Guild is good, the D-18 is good. I knew the 000-28 and D-35 were okay. The 12er I knew was lifting just a bit on the back bass side corner (He told me to tuned down a half step and use a capo and watch it) and my D-28 need to have the bridge re-glued. I'm taking the D-28 to the nearest Martin Auth. Repair guy in the area ASAP. I contacted him yesterday. I live in Newport News, VA and he is in Henrico which is basically outside Richmond. The guy I brought it to for a look see said it looks like they did not sand the bridge to the radius of the top. We all know a flat top is not flat.
 
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adorshki

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The guy I brought it to for a look see said it looks like they did not sand the bridge to the radius of the top. We all know a flat top is not flat.
I'm sure Martin knows that.
Don't want to slam Martin and I guess it is possible it was put together a little too quickly and not enough care was taken to match the bridge profile to the top profile, but to be fair tops are also known to distort under tension ("bellying") especially if strung with heavier than design-spec strings.
The 12er I knew was lifting just a bit on the back bass side corner (He told me to tuned down a half step and use a capo and watch it)
Easy for him to say if he's not the one playing it and you have my sympathy if you don't want to be stuck in "flat hell" or use a capo.
(I HATE capos if only because they take away frets from my favorite part of the fretboard, the bass end)
My best buddy's first-year JF30-12 also had some lift and after getting the warranty re-glue he went with silk and steels 1/2 step down (no capo) for many years , as a preventive measure against recurrence .
I didn't mind when I went to jam with him but I'm an oddball that way, I kinda dug it because it gave me an opportunity to play scales I wouldn't normally get to use.
When he got back in a band he went to full step down, no capo.
If you also prefer to maintain a standard tuning but want to reduce tension on the bridge this might be a good time to look at silk and steels, which offer significantly lower tension as a set than comparable full metal sets.
I have a similar issue on the F65ce and Guild's own Authorized Repair Center at the time also told me to just wait and watch but never mentioned tuning down. (it's already spec'd for .010 extra-lights)
BTW it's been stable all that time, I made a template by tracing the bridge outline onto a piece of paper slipped under the back and corners, it'll help you "monitor deterioration", if any.
I thought of s'n'steels myself recently when actually looking to try to get a woodier tone out of it, went for silk'n'steel .011's and tuned a whole step down and actually loved the results, with very little volume sacrifice, and the added benefit of continued confidence in bridge stability.
But that's a thin top that responded well to lower tension.
Anyway, don't write off the experiment 'till you've tried it, if interested.
:friendly_wink:
 
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...The whole "bridge pins make a sound difference" is open to debate. I personally do not believe that the bridge pins make a difference due to their material (in a properly made guitar, there should not be any vibration of the strings past the bridge saddle), but the weight difference of the various bridge pin materials may make the slightest difference. How audible that difference is is also debatable.

I can hear the difference on 3 of my guitars. (Guild F50r and Gibson SJ 200) I had ivory pins and switched to ebony. Warmer and articulate.
On my JF30s, I can’t really tell the difference.
 

bobouz

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When originally built, Martin bridges are flat on the bottom & glued flat to the top.

But beyond this current discussion, I've gotta wonder what's up with Martin. I check the UMGF "Technical Info" section periodically, and there have been many reports of recent models suffering from loose bindings (typically separating at the waist), and instruments requiring neck resets after only a few years.

A lifting bridge can certainly happen, but on a newer instrument that's been well cared for, it would bother me. After owning many, the last new Martin I purchased was in 2001. It's still with me & the build quality is first-rate. But for an assortment of reasons, Martins don't push any of my buttons these days, so their current problems won't ever impact me. However, if I were interested in them, the above would be reason enough to critically pause & consider other makers.
 
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