A whole buttload of fake Guilds for sale on this site

fronobulax

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Wow. A couple looked like they might have been legit NS. But there has to be a "catch" with those "autographs". The company has a Las Vegas phone number but all Goggle turned up in five minutes is that they are not a member of the Vegas BBB.
 

HeyMikey

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If I were a bettin’ man I put money on those signatures being as real as the guitars.
 
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fronobulax

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If I were a bettin’ man I put money on those signatures being as real as the guitars.

They are in Vegas. Maybe Tom needs to pay them a visit.

I tend to agree. When I think of something as being autographed I think of the signer being physically present, holding the pen, marker or whatever, and signing the object. I get the sense there is some nuanced legal definition of autograph that allows a real signature to be reproduced and described as autographed. I note that their focus seems to be decoration which suggests their customers might not care about authenticity in the same way that we do.

That said, I look at some of the unreal Guilds and wonder if CMG's lawyers would have a reason to send them a letter concerning trademarks.
 

dreadnut

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Funny that the three Beatles' autographs are all in exactly the same handwriting...things that make you go "Hmmm"...
 

steve488

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They are in Vegas. Maybe Tom needs to pay them a visit.

I tend to agree. When I think of something as being autographed I think of the signer being physically present, holding the pen, marker or whatever, and signing the object. I get the sense there is some nuanced legal definition of autograph that allows a real signature to be reproduced and described as autographed. I note that their focus seems to be decoration which suggests their customers might not care about authenticity in the same way that we do.

That said, I look at some of the unreal Guilds and wonder if CMG's lawyers would have a reason to send them a letter concerning trademarks.

I suspect the same bit of technology that he uses to duplicate the signatures can also duplicate the corporate logos. That seems to me like grounds for a good poke by the lawyers, particularly Gibson given how they have been lately. More than likely the entity will just disappear if that happens and reappear later as a different entity to try again. My thinking is the guitars are all knockoffs and the signatures cloned from other sources....
 

adorshki

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I suspect the same bit of technology that he uses to duplicate the signatures can also duplicate the corporate logos. That seems to me like grounds for a good poke by the lawyers, particularly Gibson given how they have been lately. More than likely the entity will just disappear if that happens and reappear later as a different entity to try again. My thinking is the guitars are all knockoffs and the signatures cloned from other sources....

"Ultimate Custom 1958 Slash Signed Guild Crossroads Double Neck Green Flame Maple Top Electric Guitar Acoustic Guitar Dark Black Back":
https://www.dhgate.com/product/ulti...MIiqSE58fL5AIVDtVkCh2DBQSkEAQYASABEgIHyPD_BwE

And "IIRC"; these guys, discussed here before, actually have their USA headquarters in Las Vegas (what are the odds of a connection?):
http://dcustomguitar.com/custom-sho...MIiqSE58fL5AIVDtVkCh2DBQSkEAQYBiABEgLAHPD_BwE
Also purveyors of Guild knock-offs.
You just tell 'em what logo to put on the headstock.
 
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dreadnut

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Never mind that Slash wasn't even born until 1965...

Unfortunately, some people will no doubt be duped by this unscrupulous charade.

Hey Tom, go over there and give these guys what for!
 

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I think the most disturbing thing about these rip offs is their unapologetic lack of TRC's...
 

SFIV1967

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It's amazing the lawyers are not after all of them, what they produce in China is one thing, but how can they market and sell them in the US?
It doesn't matter if they are DCustom Guitar in Las Vegas (which is actually Green Infinity General Merchandise, LLC, incorporated and based in Lewes, Delaware, Delaware State File Number: 7011511. HBS Record ID Number: 372599) or DH Gate or whatever.
It's funny DH Gate is full of fake goods but they have an "Intellectual Property Protection System": https://brand.dhgate.com/usr/sign.do#hp1806_cs-3-b

Ralf
 

adorshki

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Never mind that Slash wasn't even born until 1965...
What, you don't think he would have stooped to playing a ratty old Guild by the time he was a teen wannabe?

Unfortunately, some people will no doubt be duped by this unscrupulous charade.
I'm beginning to suspect that folks that wind up there realize most of this stuff is purely decorative (but still grossly overpriced) and has no real collector's value, otherwise it'd be in Rick Harrison's place just up the road:
pawn%2Bstars%2Bripoff.jpg

(The dead giveaway on that one is that Jimi Hendrix was never in the Yardbirds, even if he did steal their gadget guy.)
I think the most disturbing thing about these rip offs is their unapologetic lack of TRC's...
Au contraire, mon frere, this one MUST be legit, the TRC's even upside down!:
https://autographsauthenticationsto...een-double-cut-hollow-bodied-electric-guitar/
 
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adorshki

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It's amazing the lawyers are not after all of them, what they produce in China is one thing, but how can they market and sell them in the US?
It doesn't matter if they are DCustom Guitar in Las Vegas (which is actually Green Infinity General Merchandise, LLC, incorporated and based in Lewes, Delaware, Delaware State File Number: 7011511. HBS Record ID Number: 372599) or DH Gate or whatever.
It's funny DH Gate is full of fake goods but they have an "Intellectual Property Protection System": https://brand.dhgate.com/usr/sign.do#hp1806_cs-3-b
Ralf
In the case of DCustom I think it was suggested that the issue might be proving substantial damage to the brand equity, which would be even more difficult because my memory was that their knock-offs were models that were no longer in production.
Another question was the cost of pursuing a claim although it occurs to me now that CMG (and Fender prior to that) probably has a firm on retainer for all types of needs and the individual case may not be all that expensive to pursue.
In the case of the subject outfit, I'm wondering if there's some kind of loophole since they don't seem to be purporting that the guitars are "genuine", only the autographs, and they could claim they're only advertising what the guitars say on the headstocks?

It occurs to me the Josh Davis Band was busted for selling fakes, but was it because the fakes were "counterfeits" or because they committed fraud in misrepresenting them?

I note that article says they were found guilty of counterfeiting and did have to pay damages to Martin who comprised the bulk of the fake guitars.
Perhaps in that case they were technically guilty of trademark infringement by "building" the fakes here in the US, even if it only consisted of putting the logos and labels on the guitars?

Fortunately many of those duped pawn shop employees went on to find gainful employment at Guitar Center.
 
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D30Man

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Ah yes.. the Emerald Guild Star...bird does in fact have an upside down TRC!!!
 

adorshki

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I get the sense there is some nuanced legal definition of autograph that allows a real signature to be reproduced and described as autographed. I note that their focus seems to be decoration which suggests their customers might not care about authenticity in the same way that we do.
Yep, licensing celebrity images has been a nice money maker for generations, (Monkees lunchboxes, anybody?) and an autograph would seem to be just another form of "image":
https://www.licenseglobal.com/music-and-celebrity-licensing

I'm also reminded Guild themselves would occasionally obtain the rights to use a celebrity autograph as seen on the Barry Gibbs Songbirds and Richie Havens D-40's.
Even remember one of the old Westerly hands recounting the story of throwing away the original template for the Barry Gibbs signature TRC's in Westerly's last hours.
(Or was it even the actual autograph for reproduction?)
I'm positive some kind of legal authorization for use was obtained even if it may have been a courtesy on the part of the artist, but suspect more likely perhaps some consideration in the form of instruments was given.
 

dreadnut

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I'm thinking these guys could be prosecuted for fraud, internet fraud, postal fraud, copyright infringement, etc, etc. if they could even be located.
 
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Westerly Wood

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thinking of selling my Br. before i put it on CL, totally gonna grab a white crayon or pen and sign it. then add 500 to the asking price
 

dreadnut

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Boy they have a lot of stuff on their site...an autographed copy of Buddy Holly's album "That'll Be The Day."

Somehow I gotta think an authentic album signed by Buddy Holly would be worth WAY more than they are listing this fake for; that would be like the Holy Grail of musical celebrity autographs.
 
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adorshki

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I'm thinking these guys could be prosecuted for fraud, internet fraud, postal fraud, copyright infringement, etc, etc. if they could even be located.
At this point I'm willing to bet that somewhere they've paid the licensing fees to the various rights holders for this purpose.
Even Elvis and Buddy Holly still have estates which can grant the usage rights, it's one of those little things that keep the estates generating income even after the artist's death.
But Buddy's album as you mentioned is one of those that made me think that they're actually offering a mixed bag of product, that one could be genuine.
They might have started off as a genuine "collectibles" outfit and seen an opportunity to expand into the "memorabilia" market.
For sure I'm just saying I think it could be a "legitimate" business.
But I guess bigger scams than this have been pulled off under the nose of the watchdogs, if it is a scam, as in unlicensed or even non-existant/never delivered product .
I just think it's an utter cheese factory, and anybody who'd swallow their hype needs a conservator.
 
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