Are all 1970s arched-back Guild D25s laminated, or are some of those backs solid hog?
"Never say never" with Guild but I've never heard of any of the arched backs being other than laminated.
The reason for the lamination would tend to would tend to work against the possibility of being solid as well:
A: Laminating in cross-grained plies creates a stronger material than any similar thickness of unlaminated wood could be.
B: Solid sheets are harder to form than laminates, in the steam press dies used to press those backs.
Infrequently cited details:
C: The center sheet of the laminates was generally something softer and less expensive like larch.
D:The layers were glued-up and steam pressed by Guild, beginning at some time in Westerly at least.
The steam press still in use a Oxnard today was acquired during Westerly era but I'm embarrassed to admit I can't recall if it was the '70's or '80's, now, pretty sure it was '70's.
Not sure if they had their own steam press prior to that, I always just assumed they did.
The tonewood sheets themselves were acquired as furniture veneer from a company that made it.
The sheets were sliced off of a single block with the result that consecutive sheets had almost identical grain patterns.
Guild's standard practice was to take advantage of that and use consecutive sheets and match the grain of the outer layers of the lamination which resulted in the appearance of a solid sheet.
This still fools folks new to the brand to the point that a few years back one member who'd just acquired an F65ce (arched maple back) insisted the back had to be solid because of grain matching on the inside and outside, even refused to believe otherwise when the reason was explained to him.
If you heard somewhere that the arched backs were solid, that may be why.
I myself didn't realize it until after owning my D25 for a while, and noticing one night that a very distinctive peak in the grain pointed toward the headstock on the outside and the endpin on the inside, but quite obviously the same grain pattern.
Being a novice to the brand at the time I hadn't realized the back was laminated but then the light went on because I
did know that laminations are stronger by weight than solids.
A couple of years after joining here I mentioned the fact and one of the guys who had worked in Westerly said technically it would have been considered a defect and a QC flunk.
:shocked:
Pre 74 I think was the cutoff date. But this is only halfway through first cup of coffee at work.
Flat backs are always solid.
Arched backs are always lam.
See Guildedagain's post on the Cherry D-25 a few lines down on this section. Hans advised that his was a 73
Right but note he accurately recounts the history with notes that the different types were avialable in overlapping periods, there was no hard and fast "cut-off" date.
At least, not on dealer's shelves although they may have instituted cut-offs on appropriate dates in Westerly,
probably (it's an educated guess on my part based on the knowledge that Guild would make batches of models, generally in response to dealer orders, and some of the unsold pieces could sit around for a while before finally being shipped) according more to materials on hand than actual date planning:
"NO more 'hog tops left for D25's? That's it then, we're not gonna make any new ones no matter what the dealers order, it's spruce from here on out. What day is it?"
:friendly_wink:
Yes, an arched back on a Guild is lam, although I'm not an expert. On other guitars, maybe even Jazz Guilds from the 50's, archtops and backs would be handcarved, like pre war Epis, and many others.
I'm nowhere near as well versed in the electrics as the flat-tops but I think that even carved backs were the exception rather than the rule for the Guild archtops,reserved for the top-of-the-liners IIRC.
Also it was known that laminated arched tops were better at retarding feedback so that was intentionally designed in to some models where the feedback risk was seen as greater.
(Also just occurred to me they might stand up to the stress of a Bigsby installation better)
Funny you should mention Epis, did you know yet the company itself was founded with displaced Epiphone employees and even one of their own former executives who partnered up with Dronge?
I think sides are solid across all variations of the D25?
Yes.
Laminated sides very rare on Guild flattops.
Suspect also a needless expense as the material itself is slightly costlier due to the cost to make it.
Only recall it being used on at least the maple and rosewood versions of the DCE series dreads off the top of my head, as the cutaways would have been difficult to form if solid.
***
If Hans wasn't using the term "bodies" loosely, then Bob Weir's Custom F50r's with the oversized headstock had laminated sides:
Post 3 from here:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?185399-Bob-Weir-and-his-Guild-F50/page2
Don't agree with the dating and the sequence of the various events, but nevertheless these guitars are absolutely historically interesting.
The ones I've seen had laminated Brazilian rosewood bodies and 5-pc. laminated maple necks, which made them somewhat odd looking.
Sincerely,
Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl