Guild sighting #5376

The Guilds of Grot

Enlightened Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
9,547
Reaction score
4,716
Location
New Jersey Shore
Guild Total
117
Did anybody catch the Janis Joplin doc last night on PBS.

I enjoyed the clip from the Festival Express with Janis playing a Guild!

janis-natural-state-featured-735x413.jpg


Here's the clip. Janis starts at 1:06.

(Bob Weir has his Guild too!)

 

dreadnut

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
16,082
Reaction score
6,442
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Guild Total
2
Thanks for posting; classic rendition of Kris's song by Janis on a Guild, it doesn't get much better than this!
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
As Got already spotted, Bob was there as well and played the F-50 as well.
But from this picture it looks like it's Jerry's as Bob had the one with the big custom headstock:
PopTop_TheDead_061712~2.jpg


Ralf

Right, but I wasn't thinking in terms of whether we know Jerry owned one or how to distinguish Bobby's custom (which was also an F50r in any case), as much as whether that one in the Janis clip was actually his or if there was more than one present on the tour.
For that matter I have a strong suspicion that between 'em they owned more than 2 F50/F50r's although maybe not all at the same time.
Jerry's presence in other scenes from the same "moment" suggest it is most likely his though...
Refreshed some of that history in the recent thread about Tom Shipley's F50 listing on eBAy:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?199936-Tom-Shipley-s-1969-F50-For-Sale
 
Last edited:

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,442
Reaction score
8,956
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
Last edited:

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,442
Reaction score
8,956
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
...whether that one in the Janis clip was actually his or if there was more than one present on the tour.
Al: Good points you brought up. And with Hans answer we see clearly on this picture that Jerry played the exact same guitar Janis and Rick and John played in those videos as it is in this picture: Note the two dots on the pickguard towards the headstock side: So Jerry played John Dawson's F-50 as well!

PopTop_TheDead_061712~2.jpg


Ralf
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Al: Good points you brought up. And with Hans answer we see clearly on this picture that Jerry played the exact same guitar Janis and Rick and John played in those videos as it is in this picture: Note the two dots on the pickguard towards the headstock side: So Jerry played John Dawson's F-50 as well!

PopTop_TheDead_061712~2.jpg


Ralf

I knew there was something nagging at me but couldn't remember what it was...think it was actually the Rick Danko connection but don't recall ever hearing about John Dawson's ownership....(thanks Hans!)
(To be honest I never owned any New Riders records although I knew about their origins well enough)
 

dreadnut

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
16,082
Reaction score
6,442
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Guild Total
2
NRPS did the best version of "Hello Mary Lou" ever recorded, pedal steel to die for. Sure wish I could get my "linkie" thing to work so I could post it.
 

idealassets

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
2,517
Reaction score
1
Location
Northern Michigan
After locating and watching my copy of the Festival Express movie I noticed a new thing that was perhaps not very evident before. The jamming on the train was often electric and a little loud, with drums, electric guitar/ bass, and brass section going on. It appears that the F50 was ideal for playing along acoustically into a unidirectional mike. The F50 is a bit louder than many acoustics, and no doubt it gave the one playing it a better chance to hear his guitar playing.

As least that's what I have been told, is just how loud they thought my F512 and F50 were when anyone played them. I learned to palm dampen my strings when playing with other acoustic players in order to not play over them.
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
The jamming on the train was often electric

Have not watched the DVD/Video/whatever. Have not ridden a train in a few decades.

This implies battery powered amps or electricity or perhaps what appeared to be on the train was actually in a station? Any ideas how things were amplified and what the power source was? Thanks.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Have not watched the DVD/Video/whatever. Have not ridden a train in a few decades.

This implies battery powered amps or electricity or perhaps what appeared to be on the train was actually in a station? Any ideas how things were amplified and what the power source was? Thanks.

I got a suspicion you're gonna have a "doh!!!" moment:

omhq17a129812002703.jpg

Diesel-electric locomotives were the standard train engines by the time that movie was made.
I haven't seen the movie either but I'd say the odds are very strong that's what's pulling the train around:
"Although commonly called "diesels," the locomotives actually are electrically driven. The diesel engine drives an alternator, which produces electricity to run electric motors mounted on the locomotive's axles...By the end of the 1950s the steam era was over and increasingly powerful diesels ruled the rails."
I'm sure it was no problem getting power to the cars for things like interior lights and the kitchens.
Electricity's ideal for things like trains: Massive massive amounts of torque available at even 1 rpm, just the thing to get several hundred thousand pounds of mass moving in a precisely controlled manner.
As for battery powered amps I don't think even Pignoses were around then.
OK a check on their history reveals they were founded in '69 and gave away 65 prototype models to the legends of the business but first production model was released in '73.
I think summer of '70's a pretty unlikely time for more than one Pignose (if any) to have been aboard that train, and they were the only battery-powered game in town.

:smile:
 
Last edited:

idealassets

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
2,517
Reaction score
1
Location
Northern Michigan
The festival express movie is a little interesting, but a bit of a let down and an enigma. No problem since I found it in the bargain bin at Walmart. I would have preferred that just the original film was released, but instead there are many interviews that were added 40 years later from old musicians and promoters; so it is constantly flashing back and forth.

Additionally Festival Express concert scenes are shown where many of the bands that played concerts were not travelling on the Festival Express train, although its difficult to discern that at first. Bands that play in this movie are: The Band, Buddy Guy Band, Delaney and Bonnie (only jamming with Ian & Sylvia), Flying Burrito Brothers, Grateful Dead, Ian & Sylvia, Janis Joplin Band, Leslie West (only shown holding, but not playing a guitar one time on the train), Mashmakahn, and Sha Na Nah.

So, as the Grateful Dead claimed 40 years later in the movie interviews: "there was an endless supply of any liquor, and plenty of psychedelics to go around.." The movie was re-created with that in mind, with a lot of scenes hopping around, plenty of weirdness, and all those interviews thrown in with 70 year old hippy musicians added to the movie about 40+ years later.
 
Last edited:

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
I'm sure it was no problem getting power to the cars for things like interior lights and the kitchens.

If I rephrase the question as did they, rather than could they? Was there a 120 volt outlet available to any passenger or did someone run an extension cord from the porter's closet or...?

I thought about Pignose too but didn't check dates. Thanks.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
If I rephrase the question as did they, rather than could they? Was there a 120 volt outlet available to any passenger or did someone run an extension cord from the porter's closet or...?I thought about Pignose too but didn't check dates. Thanks.
Ok good point, my own blind spot.
I'll ask over in the Let's Talk Pullmans forum and get back to ya.
Note that the Wiki page for movie (and tour) says:
"Festival Express was staged in three Canadian cities: Toronto, Winnipeg and Calgary, during the summer of 1970. Rather than flying into each city, the musicians traveled by chartered Canadian National Railways train, in a total of 14 cars (two engines, one diner, five sleepers, two lounge cars, two flat cars, one baggage car, and one staff car).
So it's not as if they were having to reload into different trains at every stop, it's entirely likely that once an appropriate outlet was found it was easily kept "plugged in".
Aha, answer here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=4...an train cars have electrical outlets&f=false
"Delightfully new are the 110v AC outlets for your personal electrical appliances..."
I wonder if this turned out to be an entirely unforeseen but happy discovery for a bunch of bored but blasted musicians?
"Hey guys, we got wall plugs!!!!"
:glee:
 
Last edited:

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
"Hey guys, we got wall plugs!!!!"
:glee:

Thanks. I know this is a veer that perhaps is only of interest to me but I do play places where an amp is not welcome or where power is not available. If you had told me I was playing on a train, I would have just grabbed the B-50 and now I know I have choices, or at least questions.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Thanks. I know this is a veer that perhaps is only of interest to me but I do play places where an amp is not welcome or where power is not available. If you had told me I was playing on a train, I would have just grabbed the B-50 and now I know I have choices, or at least questions.

GAD may be interested to know that the graphic accompanying that blurb about Burlington's Zephyr trains dating to the 30's featured a guy using an electric shaver.
It was the beginning of the death of safety razors, which he collects.
(Trying my best to keep a straight face while I deliver that)

After all that it occurred to me that growing up in California in the '60's where nobody walks, they drive their car, I never truly realized just how deeply trains underpinned American culture.
Not just as freight movers but as people movers and thus a major source of human interaction.
A "Doh" moment when one considers how many songs across many genres have train references* and that they must have been a large source of transportation for a lot of entertainers over the years.
Suddenly the idea of chartering a train for a 3-city tour begins to make a whole lot of sense logistically and historically, not just as a novel form of transportation which originally I thought of as an "image stunt".
I mean, rock bands always traveled by bus or plane, right?

And even though I was never a big fan of folk music, this one always touched me somehow and I still pull out the the chart occasionally:
"City of New Orleans"
image007.gif

Don't think I ever truly put together it was a real train with a daily route through the heartland, for decades.
Part of a whole fleet of "City of..." trains...

* "Take the "A" train", "Hear My Train a-comin'", "Last Train to Clarksville", "Love in Vain" "White Room", "One After 909",
and of course "Smokestack Lightnin'" and "Know you Rider" for us Deadheads....
 
Last edited:

Rich Cohen

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
3,144
Reaction score
2,273
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Daaaaamn! Makes me want to get another F 50 maple! There's a lady in C'ville that comes to the open mics on Mondays, whose voice and presentation ain't no less than Janis'. I'm always moved by Janis and the lady whose name I haven't learned yet, but will do soon. She complimented me last Monday on my playing of my own song "Don't Keep Me Hangin' Baby." Encouragement always is good!
RC
 
Top