1972 D25 Cherry Chocolatey Mahogany Ripples, and the wonders of hydration

Guildedagain

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Oops, I Guilded again
I had to hide it until dark
I wish I was innocent.


This could be my last guitar, who knows?

I had that moment of temporary sanity, when you realize you would have to be a madman not to buy a guitar ;-)))

I did lust after it for seven days, after which I became weak*… translation I couldn't get any answers from the seller "a consignor", and when it relisted, and I finally got them to make the shipping affordable, not $142 for that miserable USPS Parcel Select, I bought it, answers be damned. All I needed to know was "one owner”, and it looked pretty clean and it really was a hog top.

*pun

It got here FedEx Ground in a huge box full of edible corn peanuts, 4" all the way around the case, which was a really good thing because the way oversized possibly vintage Guild snakeskin chipboard case with red interior had no neck support via the case pocket, so the back of the headstock was actually laying against the bottom of the case, tuned up to pitch with some really old D'addario strings .11-54.

Made it just fine though, and I finally got to look at one of these all Hog dreads in person. Played a few notes, but then instantly completely detuned it and haven’t heard it since.

“One owner” and the guy sweated a bit with some pretty corrosive sweat, left etches in the finish here and there, even up on the headstock.

I did a real thorough clean/polish involving serious amounts of elbow grease, until its beauty was revealed, large swollen stripes of grain, sometimes red sometimes chocolaty brown depending on the amount of light hitting the top.

I didn’t realized these are Cherry all the way around, and the back and back of neck have that most familiar 60’s Gibson shade of red, along with righteous finish crazing.

It was then I discovered the crack, a sound hole crack. I’ve been super fortunate with my Guilds (and I keep a lot of sponges dampened), but I don’t have a crack in any of them, not even repaired cracks, that’s across 5 guitars from ’68-73.

So I see this crack, yikes! I was just about to put it to bed in a grail Guild case, an NOS case out of Clark NJ that would be fit for a D50, and start hydrating it anyway, as the frets are sticking out of the fingerboard like knife blades…

Hydration is my fix. For that, and neck angle. It may be placebo, but it works for me. This one, the neck angle was such as a straightedge touching the top edge of the bridge, two days later in the case with sponges, the rule glides of the top of the bridge and I believe I can keep it that way with the right strings, JP Silk & Bronze.

Belief is everything ;)

Also to note, fingerboard wood the likes I haven’t seen on any other Guild I have, wow.

It’s still not strung, the crack at the soundhole has all but closed itself, I’ve already cleaned it with alcohol prior to swelling the woodgrain back out so it it ready to glue, and maybe cleat?

So, having not played it, but having fondled it a lot, I’d have to say that for a guitar that was down towards the bottom of the totem pole, the quality is, well, amazing.

Guitars costing thousands would be lucky to have this combination of build quality and materials.

I’m hoping to glue it soon, taking it slow. And string, and play.

Any recommendations on gluing appreciated. Was going to use a little Titebond, maybe a cleat. There is a lot of other wood and braces holding that together, I don’t see a huge issue with further cracking.

Will update the post with most pics and sonic tales further on down the road.

Not only I get to try a vintage Guild hog top dread, I get to compare it to virtually same year spruce top dread, a very fair comparison.

This is the crack prior to any cleaning or hydrating, actually looked a lot worse in person, and of course it was slightly misaligned and would have had to been cleated in that state, it’s so tight now I can’t get it to move, might even be too tight for gluing?

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Crazy fingerboard grain, unlike any of my D/F guitars, so this is what they saved for the low end guitars or is this one especially blessed?

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Will get more pics.

Serial # is 86### making it mid 1972?
 
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beecee

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I gotta take a peek at the grain on my fret board....that is nice.

Have to admit the red of yours and mine kinda grows on you after a bit. I was actually originally wishing for a BR

I cannot say I would be so patient as you!
 

F312

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Oh, that fingerboard is some of the best seen.

Ralph
 

Cougar

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....I had that moment of temporary sanity, when you realize you would have to be a madman not to buy a guitar ;-)))

Sometimes you just gotta take a risk. Well done in this case! So do you do the (glue/cleat) repair yourself, or do you take it to a repair guy? Either way, best of luck! Looks like a beauty!
 

Westerly Wood

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it looks sweet, congrats! 1973 was a great year for Guild! one of their very best.
 

Br1ck

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My 1970 D 35 had exactly that same soundhole crack. My luthier cleated it.
 

Guildedagain

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Fantastic, thx guys ;)

I kinda wish the neighbor luthier was here so he could glue it, but realistically, this is stuff I need to learn to do anyway, and I've done a fair bit with him before, on the '87 Washburn D25S-12N that had taken a hit and we restored back in '16 (the year I joined, I bought the D4-12 because the Washburn project was taking forever), even customized with a wood pickguard, and I did plenty of "caul" work, where you McGuyver chunks of wood as needed to provide counterpoint for the clamps inside the guitar.

I'l probably just whittle a tiny piece of (Mahogany?) and make a tiny cleat for it and glue it, clamp it, and finally string it up because I really can't take it anymore...

Some other oddities, no date inside the soundhole popsicle braces, and looking a little further into the guitar, what, a Rosewood inner bridge plate, made of the same as the fingerboard!

I'll get pics when I get time.
 

adorshki

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Sorry, late to the party, had to take care of some other business (wayward "F65" and Elvis sightings) first...:glee:
Cherry always was my favorite, but what does the label say?
Or is it one of those "no color code" labels, as in maybe the unspoken message is: "Do we really have to tell you?"
Also wanted to find a reference from our member Christopher Cozad about potential causes of the notorious "fretboard extension cracks".
(From the link embedded in his name above):

"I have no idea when it occurred, but the dreaded soundboard/soundhole shift occurred at some point in recent history, splitting the top along the "bass" edge of the fingerboard extension from the neck heel to the edge of the soundhole. It wasn't grotesque, but it was noticeable, and it identified a larger underlying problem: A neck block should never shift. If it does, it is likely due to glue failure.
Glue failure can occur for a number of reasons, perhaps the most common being a combination of heat and string tension, such as when a guitar is left in a hot car. Glue failure is not necessarily obvious; in fact, adjoining pieces of wood can appear perfectly glued and yet a split may still have occurred.
In addition to a neck block letting go, another factor that can be responsible for a soundboard split is the shifting of the entire upper bout, where the upper bout above the soundhole tilts forward/inward or to one side. Such a shift could occur as the result a sudden jolt (which may indicate insufficient support), or also be the result of glue failure.

Lastly, splits and cracks can and will occur under humidity extremes, where pieces of wood are restricted in their ability to swell and/or contract, having been glued in place
."

Suspect for both you and Br1ck the cause was neck block swelling with humidity, a mechanism he describes in more detail later in that article.
But at least not the actual neck block shifting, otherwise you'd likely see evidence of dive of the extension into the top.
Some other oddities, no date inside the soundhole popsicle braces, and looking a little further into the guitar, what, a Rosewood inner bridge plate, made of the same as the fingerboard!
I'll get pics when I get time.
Now that I think about, that was actually their most common bridge plate material, that I can recall being cited anyway, with maple a distant second.
And have never seen plate material spec'd by them, only reports from members here, and even different plate wood in the same model in different years.
Another one of those "invisible details" affecting voice.
You'll have to try to find one with a maple plate, now.
:glee:
And yeah, go figure that Guild's entry level dread had such a gorgeous fingerboard.
Stuff like that helped build the legend of their being the best bang for the buck back in the '70's.
They did have plenty of Brazilian suitable for use as fretboards and bridges well into the '80's.
Ya done good!
Congrats!
 
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D30Man

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Well I can tell you I would like to see more photos.. What I am seeing looks super clean for its age! Nice score!
 

Guildedagain

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Here's some more gut shots, and as far as the tag goes, she's Cherry all the way ;-)

I think my D35's have Maple under the bridge?


The neck block, inkstamped D25, also just above penciled in from the top, looks like RL? Robert Lee?

Employee or owner sig, looks more owner if that's what it is.

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Cherry baby

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Stripey Rosewood bridge plate

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Crack from the inside.

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Where I rest my case, the ultra deluxe purple with red trim work really well with this one, NOS case from Clark NJ with the 4" dealer pick in the pocket.

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That huge grain... captured it in reflections.

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That fingerboard, wow!

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D30Man

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That's just lovely.. Yeah the grain on that board is impressive.. Just a really good example of RW at its best..
 

beecee

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What did you use on the fretboard? You have me motivated to do some cleaning this weekend!
 

Guildedagain

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The fretboard was already like that. The guy must have been fastidious on fretboard cleaning and oiling and short nails always. Or, the fingerboard and frets were worked on in the recent past and not played much after that.

It looks like the frets over the body got flattened out some, and possibly the person who did it gored the fingerboard in a couple places, not visible unless you're looking.

Little mysteries, like there is no fret wear to speak of. Maybe it's never really been played much.
 

Guildedagain

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RL and 73, never thought of that, I'll have to look a it again. What about employee sigs on Guilds, is that mostly unheard of?

Like Fender had initials starting in the 50's, TG; Tadeo Gomez, just one of the guys responsible for all those sexy curves...

Anyway, not to digress.

Yes, maybe a recent dressing job?

I think I have ended up with a few Guilds of unknown history, like my '73 D35 that seemed to have just been through the luthier, exceedingly low saddle (probably not necessary but asked for), incredibly low action but somehow still rings like a bell, but I coudn't get any info form the seller, prob just some guy who found it at a pawn shop...

And then my F112, same deal, obviously recently worked over to have stupidly low action, seller knew nothing.

Like many of the cars you see in the paper, "just had head gaskets done, new CV joints, brakes and tires", and then they sell it, how the H does that make any sense... unless just trying to dump it.

Back to Cherry baby, I made my little piece from a spruce scrap in my stash. The tiny caul for the top side made of the same material, barely 1/4" wide, to side on the soundhole edge. Fairly nerve racking repair actually, because you could get the broken edge into better, even perfect alignment by pushing down on the right side while slightly lifting the right from underneath, and the last thing I wanted to see was a solidly glued crack with a step...

I broke a golden rule. Do a few dry runs, don't just go in with the glue...

Anyway, after sweating bullets over getting it right, unclamping, checking, re strategizing the best way to get this sort of unequal pressure, I walked away from it, wondering if someone would notice one of my guitars has a brown top....

I looked at it this morning briefly at first light, perfect.

Will unclamp and string later, 5pm will be 24 hrs drying time, which I always feel safest with.
 
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Rich Cohen

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Don't sound hole cracks just south of the finger board suggest the neck block has moved...not a good thing! I had a 1973 F-512 with the same problem, and Tom Jacobs had to do surgery on it...albeit successfully.
Rich Cohen
 

txbumper57

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Don't sound hole cracks just south of the finger board suggest the neck block has moved...not a good thing! I had a 1973 F-512 with the same problem, and Tom Jacobs had to do surgery on it...albeit successfully.
Rich Cohen

Yes, Cracks from the fretboard extension to the soundhole are a tell tale sign that there has been some movement in the neck block over time.

TX
 

Guildedagain

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I've watched the videos where Erlewine of Frank Ford pulls one back with severe movement.

I'd say this one had no movement, just an edge crack, not running up along side the fingerboard signifying a complete separation and movement.

What I did learn over the last few day is that "lack of moisture" cracks happen when the wood just can't stretch anymore and I think that's what happened to this one. In fact, the seller's quite sure according to their pics that it cracked in transit, so maybe shock, string pull and excessive dryness.

Hmmm, really need to remind sellers to adequately elevate/insulate the headstock from shock, as well as it wouldn't hurt to put a humidifier in the case for the trip, especially in August.
 

Taylor Martin Guild

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I would say that the guitar had little playing by the old owner.
The fret board shows no signs of groves or depressions from playing wear.
The frets do look like they have been dressed though.

All in all a great find. String it up and let us hear how it sounds.
 
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