A 60's Guild D 50, a couple of questions.

gotomsdos said:

Really ?

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1964 approximate last 38636
1965 46606
Via Gruhns guide

383roller said:

1964 approximate last 38636
1965 46606
Via Gruhns guide

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That is the same info as Han's Guild Bible for the 1964 model.
Last number for a 1964 D50 is 38636.
Last 5 digit serial number for a 1965 is 46606 but that is not the last serial number for a D50 made in 1965.

In mid 1965 Guild switched to a model specific serial number system with a 2 letter prefix and a 3-4 digit suffix. With that in mind the last D50 made in 1965 according to Hans's Guild Guitar Book is serial number AL-192.

Hope this info helps!

TX

txbumper57 said:

That is the same info as Han's Guild Bible for the 1964 model.
Last number for a 1964 D50 is 38636.
Last 5 digit serial number for a 1965 is 46606 but that is not the last serial number for a D50 made in 1965.

In mid 1965 Guild switched to a model specific serial number system with a 2 letter prefix and a 3-4 digit suffix. With that in mind the last D50 made in 1965 according to Hans's Guild Guitar Book is serial number AL-192.

Hope this info helps!

TX

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Thank you for offering important info.

Here's the closeup pic of neck heel "finish crack" (decribed by seller) of that S/N 44xxx.


Do you think it's finish crack(or peeling off) ?

gotomsdos said:

Here's the closeup pic of neck heel "finish crack" (decribed by seller) of that S/N 44xxx.

Do you think it's finish crack(or peeling off) ?

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NCL actually shrinks as it ages and I wouldn't be surprised to see it actually separate at a join like where the heel meets the sides, but I don't think that slight curvature along the heel itself is due to that, but it might be.
Could be legitimate and is cracked along the edge of a slightly thicker area where lacquer built up during application.
We need a more highly magnified pic.

adorshki said:

We need a more highly magnified pic.

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Here's the original sale listing on it's own site, heel pic can be magnified more than the above:
https://banjowarehouse.com/product/1964-guild-d-50-acoustic-guitar-brazilian-rosewood/

Several critical photos you might ask for before putting down $$,
showing neck angle, saddle height, and 12th fret low E.
Fwiw, this is a NH D50.

I seem to be lost in the story. Why are you needing this guitar again? I recall you have a nice group of guitars. Are you a collector? Do you play/sing/both? What songs do you play? Inquiring minds, ya know..

Bonneville88 said:

this is a NH D50.

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Do you mean that Guild D50 with S/N 44xxx comes from New Hartford with a fake vintage label ?

No - sorry - my photos are of an NH D50
I owned for awhile.

Edit - correction, photos are of a Westerly D50, not a NH.

Neck angle - ideally a 24" straight edge placed along the top of the frets in center of fretboard hits right at the top of the bridge.
Saddle height - Bottom of low E should be closer to 1/2" than 3/8" from the top of the guitar.
Action - Low E at 12th fret .093" or thereabout.

Excellent article, a must-read
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html

Some additional examples - I'd note this particular acoustic-electric
instrument had really low action but perfect neck angle,
with low-ish saddle height - clearly room to raise the saddle
if needed, not something I often see on vintage Guilds.
Might also ask for a nut width measurement.

jedzep said:

I seem to be lost in the story. Why are you needing this guitar again? I recall you have a nice group of guitars. Are you a collector? Do you play/sing/both? What songs do you play? Inquiring minds, ya know..

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Oh, great honor you have inquiring minds about me !

I'm a singer/player/learner of vintage/poorman collector.
All I have is only acoustic, I do not touch electric. I like tone of wood instead of electric.
I'm basically a huge fan of mahogany (back & sides)

I'm basically a singer(amateur) accompanying myself with guitar. More than half of what I can sing/accompany without music score are from Bob Dylan and John Denver.

Over the past couple years, my guitar hunting has been Bob related. I bought a 1944 Gibson J-45 to aim at getting the tone of his early 60's songs(Blowin' in the wind included). I've been looking for an old Martin 000-18 to sing his Girl From The North Country with just as he did. In order to get a feeling of feather lightweght(price consideration as well), I decided to buy a war time 000-18(wonder on which year that 000-18 he played that song with is). But a couple of attempts failed. Keeping an eye on it...

I acquired a 1939 Martin 0-18 dramatically(unexpectedly). Lucky Bob uses this model at some point.

I keep a herd of 20 pieces of guitars most of which are Martin and Gibby. Some are MIJ(a couple of 60's YAMAHA FG-150s(Japan Vintage ?) included)

The next vintage hunts would be(if many bucks are jumping):
=======================================
A couple of war time (NOT PREWAR) :
Martin 00-21/000-18
Gibson LG-2(no prewar)

A couple of top end vintage YAMAHAs are optional targets:
L-53 custom (for John Denver)
L-31
L-15 pre 1980
FG-2000/1500/(500/75, middle/low end)

Maybe a couple of 60-70's S. Yairi/Morris

Lately I've been extending to vintage of Guild and Epiphone.
Keeping an eye on some:
Guild D-50(BRW)
Guild F-30 (SB is better)
Guild F-30R(for Paul Simon)
Epiphone Texan ADJ/unADJ(for Paul McCartney)

Oh, so long...

And you jedzep ?
When will you leave your house on business in some dark evening and where did you hide your '63 F-30 ?
I'm planning to fox in...grab it, put it on my couch, breeze, you know.
Has your inquiring minds been filled fully ?

gotomsdos said:

Here's the original sale listing on it's own site, heel pic can be magnified more than the above:
https://banjowarehouse.com/product/1964-guild-d-50-acoustic-guitar-brazilian-rosewood/

Click to expand...

Probably should have said "Better close-up"; I've got a 21" diagonal display already and still can't get it big AND clear enough to tell.
Problem is from that angle, can't really tell if it's actually displaced wood or a scratch, but it definitely appears like bare wood is visible in that "crack".
The heel cap looks ok and not displaced too, though, which I would expect to see if that was actually some kind of displacement crack, so I don't really think it is.
It actually looks like a scratch to me, which would be no big deal and even easily fixed with a drop-fill line of NCL, just to seal the wood.
(Same for that ding on the back of the neck if it bothers you, although for that one I'd probably want to get a genuine touchup to included sanding/polishing to get the neck smooth again, I'm just fussy that way.
But without having the guitrar in hand to use a magnifying glass on, I just can't tell.
but more important, Bonnevilles' pics are textbook examples of what to look for to determine if neck angle is good.
The only additional comment I'd make is where he shows a measurement of string height above the soundboard on the bass E, is better measured at the center of the bridge (at the D string) where bridge (and saddle assuming it's properly profiled) is normally at its tallest.
That's the combined height of the bridge and saddle which is "ideal" at 1/2" as he shows, generally speaking, of which the saddle height is "ideal" at about 3/16".
That allows for good break angle of strings which in turn allows optimum transfer of string energy through the saddle and bridge/bridgeplate into the top.
And sure those are "targets" subject to the build tolerances in any given instrument, but generally a 32nd to a 16th are the limits of tolerance before a given measurement might be considered "low",
but for saddles take into account an owner's preference when it comes to saddle height, they may have it cut pretty low to get really low action, as he points out.
That's why the bridge alignment test is the test for neck alignment, but knowing a bridge is ideal at aobut 5/16 also helps determine if bridge has been shaved to compensate for bad neck angle.
Sometimes that could be an appropriate "fix" at the expense of some sound output, particularly for low-value guitars, otherwise it's truly just a method to postpone the expense of a fill reset.
And means a new bridge will be needed at re-set time, as well.
Also note the pic showing "nut width" may be a bit deceptive (iI looks like it may actually be measuring the nut and not the fretboard.
The term itself is deceptive because nut width is actually the width of the fretboard at the front of the nut, which is how the nut width is defined.
BUT if the nut is slight over-or underwide as can happen especially if replaced, it is no longer an accurate measure of the true nut width.
This becomes relevant for example, in trying to determine if the nut shown above is actually an over-sized 1-5/8" (which should be 1.625") or an under-sized 1-11/16 (which should be 1.6825).
And keeping things interesting, because necks were given final shaping by hand, slight variation from spec on nut widths is a given in vintage Guilds up through close of Westerly, at least (tolerances, again)
There were even occasional 1-3/4 nuts produced, and in fact an early run of D40's and D50's actually got 'em, but by far the vast majority of Guild flattops were spec'd with 1-11/16 nuts.
Knowing how wide the fretboard actually is lets you know if a new nut with better slot spacing will be viable on a piece you're looking at, if nut width is as critical to you as it is to a lot of folks.
That '64 does look pretty good, if it shows good neck alignment I'd think it was a real peach.

Never mind this, here's your F30, gotomsdos. Negotiate!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Gu...054470?hash=item1a8174a306:g:-rUAAOSw-DJdRJ0Y

Thank you very much adorshki for accounting and jedzep for the suggestion.