A 60's Guild D 50, a couple of questions.

gotomsdos

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A '63 Guild D 50, a couple of questions.

Hi, guys out there.
I'm looking for an old Guild D50. Stumbled upon a '63 D50. Considering buying it. Would you please give me some info help ?

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1, a Fake ?
The color of cover of neck heel and binding is still white through 50+ years. just a bit unbelievable. The majority of it are brown/yellow.

2,
Are these two lines(beside arrows) in top wood cracks ?

3,
Is the bridge original ?
'63 D50 seems to be BRW, but this looks like ebony.

4,
Is the finish original ?

5,
Is the logo original ?
'63 D50 logo seems to be golden color. But this looks like white ? And there's green stuff area around logo, a remade logo ?

I asked the seller of most of the questions as above, he replied "all original. A pro tech repaired weather cracks on top. I bought this new in 1964".

Here's another '63 Guild D50 for sale, for comparison:
https://www.digimart.net/cat02/shop5213/DS05494768/

Any input would be much appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
Best, Dave.
 
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dapmdave

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It looks like an old Guild that's been refurbished. That would account for the issues you've raised.
 

Bonneville88

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Been watching that one - cool guitar.
I'd respectfully request additional detailed photos of all the areas in question.
 

wileypickett

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I’d be wary of the claim that top cracks — indicated by arrows — are “weather cracks,” aka weather checking. Those look like honest-to-goodness cracks to me!

Have they been professionally repaired / cleated? If not, how old are they? The longer one waits to have cracks repaired, the trickier they can be to repair.

And there are braces under those cracks — have they been checked?

No other big red flags for me, though I may be missing something.

Good luck!
 

fronobulax

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My opinions, uninformed as ever.

I would want to see interior shots of "the cracks" but just looking at the top there are several "vertical" lines and the cracks could also be explained as part of the natural grain.

White binding could be from just sitting in a case and not being 'exposed" to the environmental that cause yellowing. It could also have been replaced - perhaps the original was damaged in use or maybe there was a neck reset?

Not sure about the headstock. Maybe the green and the "off color" are due to a cleaning or polishing attempt that backfired?

I sense a vocabulary issue that might be worth resolving if there is serious interest. The word "fake" does not really have a precise definition when it comes to guitars in general and Guilds in particular. The seller may have a different understanding of "all original". Some people would say something remained all original after maintenance and repair at a Guild authorized service center. Other people would say it was no longer "all original" if (for example) the saddle was shaped during the work. "all original" may be compared to when they got it and not when it left the factory.

I vote for "refurbished" or "maintained" as the explanation for what you have flagged. It could have been a '63, had some work done, and then sold to the owner in '64 as being in "factory condition". The owner might not remember everything that was done during ownership or they they just might be interested enough in selling it to deal with questions.
 

mavuser

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the logo should be pearly, not gold like 70s. that looks right

green stuff around logo and headstock is a reflection, no issue there *However the truss rod cover is wrong by about 9 years-

the guitar looks like a case queen, basically untouched, which would describe the white heel cap and “repaired weather cracks”- that means the dry/lack of humidity cracked the wood and now its repaired.

ebony board and bridge is likely original, there was variation.

beautiful Brazilian back.

just no real explaining the truss rod cover
 

kostask

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To be honest, the top "Cracks" that the red arrows are pointing to look to be more natural grain variations to me. Impossible to say for sure without very detailed pictures or a personal inspection of course, but older guitars sometimes have these grain colour variations, caused by the dark grain lines being closer together in some areas than others. Only in the last 20-25 years have very light, uniform tops become desirable. I had a Lys L-18CW (a Canadian small factory shop operating from 1976-1985 or so) in which this variation was very pronounced, to the point where the top looked like it had tiger stripes. No cracks at a (inspected by multiple luthiers, including lighting up from the inside)l, and the guitar sounded great.

Kostas
 

jedzep

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the logo should be pearly, not gold like 70s. that looks right

green stuff around logo and headstock is a reflection, no issue there *However the truss rod cover is wrong by about 9 years-

the guitar looks like a case queen, basically untouched, which would describe the white heel cap and “repaired weather cracks”- that means the dry/lack of humidity cracked the wood and now its repaired.

ebony board and bridge is likely original, there was variation.

beautiful Brazilian back.

just no real explaining the truss rod cover

Where'd that gaudy bridge come from? I was just about to chime in on the bogus bridge. The style shown in the linked ad is what I expected to see.

I love not to know.
 
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gotomsdos

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Thank you all nice guys !
Great help !
Now I'm shuttling between a refurbished king and a case queen.:star:

How do ya do ? old buddy jedzep ! a Guild veteran. Welcome you chimed in...
 

Bonneville88

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txbumper57

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Bridge looks correct to me as well along with the slot through saddle.

TX
 

Bonneville88

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chazmo

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I think that's a lovely axe. I think those are cracks, not grain lines though. If you look on the neck-side of the bridge, you don't see those as grain lines there.

So, to me, the question is whether the cracks have been cleated, and whether they're stable. I agree with the earlier comment that this guitar has probably already been worked on, particularly at the neck heel. That could be a very good thing if it was done well. Not sure how much of the guitar was refinished; I would say the back has been. Perhaps not the soundboard, which I think is a very good thing since this guitar doesn't need the top refin'd (in my opinion). If the guitar plays well up and down the neck and in tune, I think it'd be great to have.
 
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gotomsdos

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Thank you for the list.
Due to too many long cracks from bridge to bottom with that 1963, I'm looking at the other two 1964. Neither of them seems to have cracks, and a big bonus, both have OHSC.

As for S/N 44xxx, There's a "finish crack" around neck heel, but chance of wood crack is not excluded.

As for S/N 41xxx, wood grains of the back of it can hardly be seen, just black.

I'm in contact with these two sellers of S/N 4xxxx.
 
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gotomsdos

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I think that's a lovely axe. I think those are cracks, not grain lines though. If you look on the neck-side of the bridge, you don't see those as grain lines there.
Smart ! Reminded me !
Yeah, seller replied, three cracks out of seven run from bridge to bottom. I guess they include those two lines I indicated by arrows in my previous post.

So, to me, the question is whether the cracks have been cleated.....
I asked seller if those cracks are cleated, but did not receive any response to this question, but to other questions.
 
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GardMan

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Bridge looks right to me - isn't that a "cloud" bridge?
Yes, I think that is what Hans calls the "cloud" bridge.

44536 has had the bridge routed for a thicker saddle... probably 1/8" thick. Factory saddles were 3/32". Often, routing for a thicker saddle was to accommodate an undersaddle transducer (piezo pickup). He doesn't show a pic of the end pin, so can't say if its been drilled out for a pickup jack. Not necessarily a bad thing (might allow for better intonation), but I am not sure I would then call it "all original."

41447 looks to me to have better break angle over the saddle... but whether that is an illusion of perspective or the different saddle thicknesses, I couldn't say.

Any one of them might be a fantastic sounding guitar. Too bad you can't buy them all, A/B/C them, and pick the one that sounds best...
 

chazmo

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Smart ! Reminded me !
Yeah, seller replied, three cracks out of seven run from bridge to bottom. I guess they include those two lines I indicated by arrows in my previous post.


I asked seller if those cracks are cleated, but did not receive any response to this question, but to other questions.

Hey, gotomsdos, I hope the discussion of the top cracks didn't dissuade you from this axe unless you don't like the way it looks. Properly cleated and/or glued, the guitar should be stable and its sound unaffected. The cracks could give you more bargaining room, if you're sensitive to the price. Anyway, good luck.
 

383roller

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Thank you for the list.
Due to too many long cracks from bridge to bottom with that 1963, I'm looking at the other two 1964. Neither of them seems to have cracks, and a big bonus, both have OHSC.

As for S/N 44xxx, There's a "finish crack" around neck heel, but chance of wood crack is not excluded.

As for S/N 41xxx, wood grains of the back of it can hardly be seen, just black.

I'm in contact with these two sellers of S/N 4xxxx.

Both of those are 65’ according to my info. I have 41259 with the same grey lined case.
 
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gotomsdos

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Hey, gotomsdos, I hope the discussion of the top cracks didn't dissuade you from this axe unless you don't like the way it looks. Properly cleated and/or glued, the guitar should be stable and its sound unaffected. The cracks could give you more bargaining room, if you're sensitive to the price. Anyway, good luck.

Thank you chazmo.
The seller set price $3600 firm. I can not accept so many too long uncleated wood cracks. I gave it up. Now I'm looking at the other two(both are from 1964).
 
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