Which model # did Guild build the most of?

chazmo

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Ditto. Acoustic, of course. No idea about electrics. Starfire, for example, might've had more sold (overall) than D-25. Great question, though. Might have a surprising answer given that the dreads didn't start until sometime in the '60s. Not even sure when the D-25 appeared; might've been the '70s.
 

Bonneville88

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For acoustics I immediately thought D25 as well, but now wondering
if more F20 variants might have been produced than D25s.
 

SFIV1967

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I also would vote for the D-25 as acoustic guitar.
Also as additional kind of reference, Bill Acton (who was the first Guild marketing manager in 1995 after Fender purchased Guild) mentioned at the NAMM 2013 show that the D-125 model would be the highest running model in the GAD series at that point in time.

On the electric side maybe the Starfire IV model over time.

Ralf
 
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adorshki

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For acoustics I immediately thought D25 as well, but now wondering
if more F20 variants might have been produced than D25s.
Did you mean F40?
Not aware of a significant number of F20 variants.
Only the M20 and the FS20ce "Unicorn" :)glee:)
196183_0.jpg


I'm up to 45 (or 46? gotta go count again) different F40 variations/derivations now (somebody reminded me about the Willy Porters from Tacoma last week :glee:) if cutaways of "standard" models (as in Tacoma F47's) are included as opposed to the purpose-built "Fxxce's"

But if we just go by a single model number (in spite of the 3 different variations on the theme) I'm pretty sure D25 still wins out:
Flatback all-hog '68 -to ca '72 (and Corona re-issue ('02-'03)
Archback all-hog ca '72-'74
Archback spruce top ca '74-'01
From Guild Gallery #1, Winter'97-Spring'98 (Richie Havens Cover), pg 12:
"More D25's have been sold than any other Guild"
I suspect even if we throw out the 'hog bodys and only the count the sprucetop archbacks with a 27-year run that would still be true, and even more so when you consider that statement was made in '97.
I think the intro-level price point helped a lot, too.
Almost hate to say it but the D25 was kind of like Guild's Beetle.
So don't think even all combined sales of all F40 variants would top it, much as I love F40's.
'Course, a D25 was my first Guild.
:friendly_wink:

The D-25 was introduced in 1968.
Right, although I was surprised to discover recently that D35 production far outstripped it in first year.
 
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adorshki

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Well that is what I understood when the question was: "Which model # did Guild build the most of?" A specific model number.
Ralf

Yes I was just responding to Bonneville's question "but now wondering if more F20 variants might have been produced than D25s."
And questioned whether he actually meant F20's or F40's, (F20 or F40 variants) since I've reported that the F40 (16" bout F-body) outline has yielded more variations than any other Guild platform.
Even then still don't think all those variants combined exceeded D25 production, but it's an intriguing question.
 

chazmo

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Al, if you're talking about body style+size then the D-25 is really a "D" -- as all the dreadnoughts are pretty much the same. OK, not really -- some are bigger, some are smaller, but most are "just right" D-sized beasties.

I'm not sure how that'd compare to *all* the "F" bodies (pinched-waists of all sizes), but certainly the dreadnoughts would have the lion's share of production over any specific-sized F-body, including the F-40 body type.
 

dreadnut

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Nope, I said specifically: "Model #." SF-I-V would be 5 different model numbers. D-25, D-15, D-4 etc. would all be different model numbers.

I would still guess they built more D-25's than any other.
 

adorshki

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Al, if you're talking about body style+size then the D-25 is really a "D" -- as all the dreadnoughts are pretty much the same. OK, not really -- some are bigger, some are smaller, but most are "just right" D-sized beasties.
Where oh where did this go off the rails?
All Guild dreadnoughts are the same size within fractions of an inch except the G75=3/4 size D50, and the over-size G-41.
I'm not sure how that'd compare to *all* the "F" bodies (pinched-waists of all sizes), but certainly the dreadnoughts would have the lion's share of production over any specific-sized F-body, including the F-40 body type.
I repeat, how did this go off the rails?
Where did I ever imply I thought all the combined F-bodies might outnumber all the dreadnoughts?
In fact I said this, about F40 variants specifically, in post #12:
"Even then still don't think all those variants combined exceeded D25 production, but it's an intriguing question. "

This whole thing started because in post #10 I asked Bonneville if he meant F20's or F40's when he said this:

For acoustics I immediately thought D25 as well, but now wondering
if more F20 variants might have been produced than D25s.
Sure he's talking about multiple models combined vs one model, but it was still an interesting question.

Nope, I said specifically: "Model #." SF-I-V would be 5 different model numbers. D-25, D-15, D-4 etc. would all be different model numbers.

I would still guess they built more D-25's than any other.

Does anybody read whole posts anymore?
Post #10:

From Guild Gallery #1, Winter'97-Spring'98 (Richie Havens Cover), pg 12:
"More D25's have been sold than any other Guild"

I suspect even if we throw out the 'hog bodys and only the count the sprucetop archbacks with a 27-year run that would still be true, and even more so when you consider that statement was made in '97.
I think the intro-level price point helped a lot, too.
Almost hate to say it but the D25 was kind of like Guild's Beetle.
So don't think even all combined sales of all F40 variants would top it, much as I love F40's.
'Course, a D25 was my first Guild.

Yeesh.
And I have 2 lists I front of me: one showing F-40 shape variants and another showing D-shape variants:
In roughly chronological order of introduction:
F40/F47/F44/F46/F42/F45ce/
F212/F312/F4512/
FS46ce/FS46bass/FS4612ce
GF25/GF30/GF40/GF50/GF50-12/GF55/GF60M/GF60R
("Prestige"): Excellence/ Standard/Classic
F4ce/F5ce/F30ce/F35ce/F65ce/F47ce/F47Mce/F47Rce
GV-70/GV-52/GV-72
Valencia/45th Anniversary/Firebird
CV-1/CV-2/CV-1c/CV-2c
F47R
Willy Porter
F40 Noir
F47 Koa
Doyle Dykes Signatures DD12Mce/DD6Mce
EDIT 9/16/19:
Just discovered in a catalog; (thanks GAD!)
"S-60" (!?!?!: Also used as an electric callout?)
http://www.westerlyguildguitars.com/guitars/studio24.html
https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1987-Catalog.pdf
Apparently what they called the Studio 24 in '86 became the S-60 in '87?
So:
48 total (or 47 if you want to toss out the 1-of-1 Firebird), but the point there was that when they wanted to build one of the most special guitars they ever made, what body shape did they use?
Ditto the 45th Anniversary.
END OF EDIT
I got a dreadnought list in front of me too and even allowing for all 3 types of D25's and the "C"'s and "CE"'s and other variations I included (such as several DV models), just like the F40 family, I challenge anybody to come up with more than 38 of 'em.
Excluding G75 and G41 because they are significantly different outlines from the basic family.
"More F40 variants have been built than any other Guild platform."
That's the only thing I've been saying for about a year now.
And yes the D25 is quite likely still the king of production.
 
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SFIV1967

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From Guild Gallery #1, Winter'97-Spring'98 (Richie Havens Cover), pg 12: "More D25's have been sold than any other Guild"
Agreed, that is "some" evidence but it was 22 years ago! Something "could" have changed in the meantime. When was the last D-25 produced?
At least now also 6 years ago Guild mentioned to me at the NAMM 2013 show that the D-125 model would be the highest running model in the GAD series. So the D-25 / D-125 surely had high numbers even until today.

I challenge anybody to come up with more than 38 of 'em.
Can I play?
I didn't make a difference between C and CE and did not add GAD models.

1 D-4 (1991-1997; spruce over arched mahogany)
2 D-5 The mysterious Guild D5 BK-E
3 D-6 (1993-?; spruce over arched mahogany back) Flat-backed?
4 D-7 (1993-?; spruce over arched mahogany? same as D-6 but HG?)
5 D-15 (1983-1988; mahogany over arched mahogany)
6 D-15-12M (1983-1986
7 D-16 (1983-1986; mahogany over arched mahogany)
8 D-17 (1983-1986; mahogany over arched mahogany)
9 D-20 (2016-; mahogany over flat mahogany, Oxnard
10 D-25 (1968-1973; mahogany over flat mahogany; + Corona?)
11 D-25 (1973-1974; mahogany over arched mahogany)
12 D-25 (1974-?; spruce over arched mahogany)
13 D-25C (1983-1984; spruce over arched mahogany cutaway)
14 D-26 (1995; spruce over arched mahogany?; limited shop special?)
15 D-30 (1987-2000; spruce over arched maple, morphed from G-37)
16 D-35 (1968-1987; spruce over mahogany)
17 D-40 (1963-1993; spruce over mahogany)
18 D-40C (1975-1991; spruce over mahogany cutaway)
19 D-40 12-NT (saw one from 1971, S/N 56740)
20 D-44 (1965-1973; spruce over pearwood)
21 D-44M (1971-1977+; spruce over flat maple)
22 D-46 (1980-1985; spruce over ash. Early models with rosewood centerpiece in back)
23 D-47CE (1983; ?)
24 D-48 (Dec 1991/1992; arched laminated mahogany back, solid mahogany sides,
25 DS-48 (1983-1984; solid or thin body dread?)
26 D-50 (1963-?; spruce over rosewood)
27 D-52 (1983-1984; spruce over rosewood)
28 D-55 (special order from 1968, production model in 1974; spruce over rosewood)
28 D-60 (mid-80s?) Spruce over flat maple.
30 D-60 (1987-1990) Spruce over rosewood; Gruhn era? Slotted diamond fret markers
31 D-60 ("late '90s" incl 99) Spruce over arched maple. Abalone wedge in pearl rectangle markers.
32 D-62 (1984-1985) Spruce over mahogany; Gruhn
33 D-64 (1984-1986) Spruce over maple; Gruhn
34 D-65 (1987) Spruce over arched maple. I found reference to this model in SN list.
35 D-65R (1987) renaming of D-55 during Gruhn era? I have never seen one for sale.
36 D-65S (1994) Spruce top, arched maple back, ebony fretboard with block/delta inlaid markers. limited run of 20 for Guitar Center. (basically a G-45 body with D-55 neck).
37 D-66 (1984-1986) Model number changed to D-60 in 1987; spruce over rosewood; Gruhn
38 D-70/D-70C (carved) (1981-1985; spruce over rosewood)
39 D-80/D-80C (carved) (1983-1987; spruce over rosewood)
40 D-80-12 CH SB SPC (from Jerre Haskew, only 1 made?)
41 D-100/D-100C (carved) (1989, 1994-1996; spruce over rosewood)
42 DC-130E (1994-1995; maple over maple cutaway acoustelectric)
43 DCE-1 (1993-1997; spruce over arched mahogany cutaway acoustelectric)
44 DCE-5 (1994-1997; spruce over rosewood cutaway acoustelectric)
45 DK-70 Peacock (1995-1996; koa over koa)
46 DV-4 (spruce over mahogany; Westerly/Tacoma/Mexico)
47 DV-6 (1996-; spruce over mahogany; Westerly)
48 DV-6 (spruce over rosewood; Tacoma, Mexico)
49 DV-25 (spruce over flat mahogany)
50 DV-52 (1992-; spruce over rosewood)
51 DV-62 (1993-; spruce over rosewood)
52 DV-72 (1993-; spruce over rosewood) limited edition
53 DV-73 (1993-; spruce over rosewood) limited edition
54 DV-74 Pueblo (1995-96; spruce over rosewood) limited edition
55 DV-76 (1993-; spruce over rosewood?) limited edition
56 DV-82 (1994) (only 1 made?)
57 G-37 (1972-1986; spruce over arched maple; "morphed" into D-30 in 1987)
58 G-45/Hank WIlliams Jr (1982-1986, re-issued in 1994; spruce over arched maple; based on G-37/D-30)
59 Deco (1997; spruce over rosewood)
60 Finesse (1997; spruce over rosewood)

Ralf
 
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awagner

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There is also the D70-12, G212 (D40-12). G312 (D50-12), and 12 string versions of the D15, D17, D25 (D212), and probably some others.

Not sure the D80-12 qualifies, since it is technically a prototype.

Also not sure renamed models should qualify, such as the rosewood D60 (a renamed D66), and the D65R (a renamed D55).
 
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adorshki

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Agreed, that is "some" evidence but it was 22 years ago! Something "could" have changed in the meantime.
Right but it was still 4 years before close of Westerly, not sure what the numbers looked like for those next 4years.
And don't think any given location topped Westerly production after that, so suspect odds are no single model ever moved out in front of it since then.
Corona cut down the model offering and while Tacoma expanded it somewhat I still don't think it gave any one model a chance to outsell D25's,and think same is probably true for New Hartford.
When was the last D-25 produced?
US built? Corona '02-maybe early '04, but suspect more likely sometime in '03: it wasn't in the Spring '04 price list where the GAD's were first listed, but the GAD25 was. (It was the first price list the GAD's appeared in)
At least now also 6 years ago Guild mentioned to me at the NAMM 2013 show that the D-125 model would be the highest running model in the GAD series. So the D-25 / D-125 surely had high numbers even until today.
Yes and I didn't mean to give short-shrift to that side of the line.
Part of the issue is no ready comprehensive list of model numbers (like the s/n lists)

Can I play?
SURE!
I didn't make a difference between C and CE and did not add GAD models.[q/uote]
I distinguished the "CE's" in the F40-family because it was a distinct formula where c&e were combined and part of the build formula, not "optional", and actually I see you did appear to follow that logic when you included the "DCE" series.

1 D-4 ...
60 Finesse (1997; spruce over rosewood)
I am gob-smacked.
And I know what a labor that must have been even if you've been compiling it for years.
Yep, several in there I'd forgotten (D5, D7,) and several I never heard of.
Nonetheless great work and I'll have to abandon that pet hypothesis now unless somebody can come up with about 15 GA (F40) variants I missed.

There is also the D70-12, G212 (D40-12). G312 (D50-12), and 12 string versions of the D15, D17, D25 (D212), and probably some others.
D4-12 and DCE-3.
Are you sure about the D17-12? I had all of those except that one.
Not sure the D80-12 qualifies, since it is technically a prototype.
Tough call but in fact I include it on my original list.
But I didn't realize it was a prototype.
If it was intended as a fully-fledged production quality piece and they simply never got around to making any, I'd include it. (Same principle as the Firebird)
If it was only a proof-of-concept and they decided not produce I'd delete it.
Also not sure renamed models should qualify, such as the rosewood D60 (a renamed D66), and the D65R (a renamed D55).
Since I issued the challenge, I do agree it's a grey area.
I'd allow it based on the principle that generally there were some fine points of distinction when they did that, even if it was something "invisible" like bracing changes.
Which also brings up, should we allow each DV 7x variant which appear to have differed only in the trim specs?
Well if we allow D4's and D25's where the only difference was things like binding and finish, then "yes".
"Conversely" I allowed all the different constructions of the D25 based on that principle, too: 3 different construction formulas
Interestingly there was far less of that in the F-40 family.
But in that family a basic wood formula could have 2 different scale lengths and body depths; something virtually non-existent with the dreadnoughts.
It's one of the things that led me to suspect my original hypothesis that there were more F40 variations than dreadnought variations was valid.
If you boil it down to basic construction formulae and omit bling or "invisible" changes, though, it still is.
Example DV4/DV6/DV25/D35/D40 were all spruce/ mahogany flatbacks under Westerly much like all those DV7x's that used the same spruce/rosewood/scalloped bracing formula and differed only in trim or the Carved heel versions of D100 and D80 I didn't originally count, either.
Nonetheless, I think eliminating those may result in a draw at best and doesn't serve a useful purpose.
Now:
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
:tranquillity:
 

awagner

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Are you sure about the D17-12? I had all of those except that one.

I recall seeing one listed on Reverb not too long ago, and it is also included as a separate model in the Blue Book of Guitars.
 

walrus

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Started with a random question by dreadnut, this thread is now making me dizzy!

You guys are really impressive, the knowledge base that is available on LTG is simply awe-inspiring...

walrus
 
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