F-47R Custom serial # "ALB #2" Westerly label Hans?

Hi All,
I just purchased this guitar. Absolutely wonderful piece:
One of only three pieces made (Label reads "ALB #2"). Was custom built for someone named "Alvin Lee Bishop" who purchased the one with natural top. This one is gorgeous sunburst.
Huge sound -- big bottom, crisp highs. Label indicates guitar was made in Westerly, RI. Gold Gotah SE700 tuners, nicely figured rosewood back and sides with lots of red. Well figured spruce top, premium HSC with original warranty card and manual. DTAR electronics.

The person I bought it from said that he believes the guitar was built in California. It has a Westerly label. It also has a Fender warranty card in the case.
Does anyone know the origin of this guitar?

I wonder if there is any relation to http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?196740-Information-About-ALB-F40-2 ?

If so that guitar was believed to be made in New Harford after 2012. ALB is probably Alvin Lee (born Graham Anthony Barnes) of Ten Years After fame but there is also a hypothesis that the other guitar was an employee build and the employee's initials were ALB.

fronobulax said:

I wonder if there is any relation to http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?196740-Information-About-ALB-F40-2 ?

If so that guitar was believed to be made in New Harford after 2012. ALB is probably Alvin Lee (born Graham Anthony Barnes) of Ten Years After fame but there is also a hypothesis that the other guitar was an employee build and the employee's initials were ALB.

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Ah but it is a Westerly label. Very confusing.... It does vibe like a New Hartford build -- not a bad thing

howardjeffreymusic said:

Ah but it is a Westerly label. Very confusing.... It does vibe like a New Hartford build -- not a bad thing

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Ah in reading the older posting it jives with what the person told me. And 1999 is more accurate (the Westerly label). Nonetheless, it's a great guitar!

Okay I just reread the older posting and it is my guitar. The poster is the guy I bought it from. Such a mystery. I went to the guy’s house and played the guitar before purchasing. It’s a wonderful piece. I had been looking for a New Hartford era F47M and stumbled on this one. I live in Georgia but was in CT to play two shows so it seemed “meant to be.”

The label is the odd part because everything else adds up to a NH custom build — which is fine. This guitar is absolutely a killer and pure Guild in every way. No way it’s a forgery. I’ve been playing these guitar is too many years. I would know

Congratulations on that Guild! Check the underside of the top with a mirror, sometimes you will find a date. In anyway it was most probably built between mid 2012 and closure of New Hartford in 2014 based on the clear evidence I provided in the other thread that the laser marked "USA" was only started mid 2012 in New Hartford and wasn't used ever before.
Ralf

As noted in the other thread, I think the Westerly label is deceptive because there is evidence that convinces me that the guitar was not made at Westerly nor when Westerly was in operation. Whether it was placed there to be deliberately deceptive or whether someone was trying to have fun is a matter of speculation.

I would be careful using the term "NH custom build" just because there was a NH Custom Shop and this instrument has none of the documentation associated with the NH Custom Shop. Similarly "forgery" can be nuanced. We don't know whether this instrument was completed at the factory, as part of regular production and someone slapped a bogus label on it or whether it is a partially completed NH instrument that was finished "on the side" by a NH employee. Some people have no problem calling an employee build presented as a production guitar a "forgery". Others don't care.

It saddens me that, if you bought this guitar from danomyte, that danomyte chose to tell you the story they were told and not update it based upon the information provided here.

Nevertheless it sounds like an awesome guitar and when you are playing, the story of where it came from doesn't make a difference. Enjoy.

fronobulax said:

It saddens me that, if you bought this guitar from danomyte, that danomyte chose to tell you the story they were told and not update it based upon the information provided here.

Nevertheless it sounds like an awesome guitar and when you are playing, the story of where it came from doesn't make a difference. Enjoy.

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That's an interesting point. The previous owner never responded to his initial post about this guitar in the thread (link above) where LTG gave him some great conformation about the guitar. Curious, at best.

Howard, as long as you love the guitar, the rest are minor details! I wonder if it would be worth contacting Guild about it? Might they have the records from New Hartford? A stretch, probably. Anyway, congratulations!

walrus

walrus said:

I wonder if it would be worth contacting Guild about it? Might they have the records from New Hartford?

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Even if they would have the records, what should they look for? The guitar has no serial number...Remember that NH guitars had the serial number only on the label and nowhere else. Since the original label does not exist anymore this guitar cannot be tracked anymore. That Westerly label is a later added label which did not belong to the guitar.
Hence my question if maybe anything is written on the underside of the top of the guitar.

It's a pretty narrow time when the guitar was built anyway, see my post #6.
Plus in the Reverb add the story was: "This was purchased at a "Let's Talk Guild" Factory tour...". Let's assume that part is at least correct, it could only have been the LMG III in October 2012 or LMG IV in September 2013. That would clearly limit the time the body was assembled to mid 2012 to mid 2013! The different black pickguard was also added later on and didn't belong to that guitar from the factory. It's not a custom built.

At LMG IV they had a pretty good selection of "B-Stock" guitars on offer, so it could be one of those. jeffcoop who actually also bought a F-47R there wrote back in 2013: "The Guild folks told us that many of the so-called b stock guitars on sale actually had nothing wrong with them, Guild just wanted to be able to offer guitars at the event, and calling them b stock was simply a way to do it. Maybe so, but this one has a couple of cosmetic issues, and beyond that seems to have been played a fair bit by someone or other—it’s in the kind of condition you might expect from a popular floor model in a music shop. No matter. It sounds terrific."

Ralf

walrus said:

I wonder if it would be worth contacting Guild about it? Might they have the records from New Hartford?

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I didn't suggest that because it doesn't have a legitimate New Hartford label. If it is an employee build it won't be in the "official records". I know not all of the prototypes and experiments were recorded.

All of this is interesting and a bit confusing. Point is, I now know less definitively than I did before! But as has been stated, this guitar is a very, very nice piece.
I owned a F47M from NH that I had to sell last year due to financial circumstances. This guitar plays and sounds much better. I bought this one to replace the 47M — so I need to play and forget it. Also — I paid a fair price. I wasn’t ripped off.
All of this only matters if I sell the guitar — which I don’t expect to do....

Wow, that's all very confusing, Howard. I would definitely look inside the body of that guitar with a mirror for any more indications of what might be going on there. In any case, hard to argue with the wonderfulness of an F-47R. Whether there's anything "custom" about it would be interesting to know, but not all that important to your enjoyment of it.

I did the mirror thing. Just really scalloped bracing and clean workmanship!

howardjeffreymusic said:

All of this only matters if I sell the guitar — which I don’t expect to do....

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Yeah, I realize I might sound like more of a jacka$$ than usual. While the origin story can be interesting it doesn't matter when you play and won't matter unless it is sold and repeated.

howardjeffreymusic said:

I did the mirror thing. Just really scalloped bracing and clean workmanship!

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Take the TRC off and see if there's any initials in the cavity. That might also help.

Oh, and final question... Is there any embossed serial number or lettering on the back of the headstock? Westerly and Corona did that. Tacoma and New Hartford (mostly) did not.

The TRC has “dual action truss rod” or something like that on a sticker — definitely New Hartford, right? Well definitely not Westerly. It’s a NH Guild. It seems pretty apparent to me. As far as repeating the story,
If I ever sell this piece, i would only repeat my experience with the story and try and sell the guitar on its merits — which are voluminous. I put down my 1966 Martin D18 last night and picked this one up and this mystery guitar clearly blew it away. And I LOVE that D18

It’s an absolutely beautiful looking guitar. These were all 1-11/16 right or did NH make any with 1-3/4?

howardjeffreymusic said:

The TRC has “dual action truss rod” or something like that on a sticker — definitely New Hartford, right? Well definitely not Westerly. It’s a NH Guild. It seems pretty apparent to me. As far as repeating the story,
If I ever sell this piece, i would only repeat my experience with the story and try and sell the guitar on its merits — which are voluminous. I put down my 1966 Martin D18 last night and picked this one up and this mystery guitar clearly blew it away. And I LOVE that D18

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Yup, That Dual Action truss rod was introduced in Late Tacoma and continued on through New Hartford. Having said that , The tuners, finish, and everything else about this guitar screams New Hartford to me. I have owned over 20 New Hartford Guilds and still have in the teens in my collection. They are my Favorite era of Guild Acoustics as they really have some magic in them. Hope you enjoy playing it for a long time to come.

TX

i commented in the wrong thread, posts 31 & 32 here:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?196740-Information-About-ALB-F40-2/page4

SO... what year would you say this NOS Guild F47R was built? I’m tempted to take the label off and call it a NH Guild built at the time of Fender’s selling the company. Because it seems that’s what it is It plays new; it looks new; it sounds new. The fit and finish, by the way; is perfect.