Guild M-75 Aristocrat and Bluesbird construction

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Hey there, Guild lovers. I'm new to this great and friendly forum. I'm glad to have lucked into this wealth of info on Guild instruments! I love the way everyone shares what they know.

I am wondering if anyone can tell me about the construction details of the various iterations of Guild M-75, Aristocrat, and Bluesbird models. I've read through Hans Moust's great book, and I've scoured through the internet and this forum for answers before posting this question. I've seen references to photos and/or drawings, but they have been dead links or linked to image websites that require membership.

Last year my son bought a black Bluesbird in Vancouver, BC, Canada, and it is interesting and got me curious about these instruments. His is apparently a late 1969 model (SN: DD 355) that has some non-original parts (I believe) and is in fair condition.

From unscrewing the pickups on this guitar, I can see that the body has laminated maple top and back (and, presumably, sides) with kerfing and a neck block, just like a standard laminated hollow-body archtop. I'm quite curious about the chambered mahogany models with the spruce tops, and the routing patterns --- on both the older models and the newer Newark Street models.

If someone can share descriptions, photos or even napkin sketches, I'd love to see them. Thanks!
 

SFIV1967

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Welcome to LTG!

Let me start with the first model:

Aristocrat M-75:
Laminated Spruce top, solid Honduras Mahogany back, laminated Honduras Mahogany sides, a hollow body construction.
That's the kind of model that you see in Hans book on pages 56 and 70. They were produced between 1954 and 1963.

This is my 1956 one, looking inside though removed output jack hole:

ROf9E8g.jpg


Ralf
 
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Thank you for the welcome, Ralf. And thanks for starting this investigation off with a nice pic and description of your '56.

This looks similar to my son's '69, but the kerfed linings are more blocky (not pared down to a triangular profile) and the '69 clearly has two longitudinal bars, like on a non-x-braced archtop. (I would post some photos, but it seems I can't do that.) It looks like the '56 has a different form of bracing. Interesting!
 
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Chris, thanks for the links to GAD.net. It came up in my internet search for all things Guild. Gary Donahue has some great info on his blog, and I've learned a lot so far by reading his posts and the comments.
 

SFIV1967

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It looks like the '56 has a different form of bracing.
It is also two thick bars running in parallel on each side of the neck and bridge pickup holes, basically to screw the pickups in.
To post pictures you need to save them to an external photo hosting site like imgur.com and post the link to the picture. Usually I first reduce them in size before I load them to imgur so they fit better into a forum post here. You cannot directly load pictures to the LTG server.


wbMGwQS.jpg
tqKLmaO.jpg


Ralf
 
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Hello Ralf. Thanks for clarifying the bracing on your '56 Aristocrat top. Your photos show what's going on very well.

Also thanks for the coaching on getting images into posts. I'll look into the photo hosting site that you mentioned. If anyone's interested, I'll eventually post some pics of my son's '69 Bluesbird. It has definitely been modified in some ways, with some pretty shoddy workmanship. Still, it plays and sounds great!

I have wondered if these unbraced flat backed solid mahogany Aristocrats/Bluesbirds have had stability issues over the years. The laminated backs would be much more strong and stable, and not need bracing; but I wonder about the solid mahogany backs in these essentially hollow body instruments.

Also I'm interested in knowing more about the chambered Bluesbirds with spruce tops, and especially the routing patterns that have been used. So if anyone has info on that to share, I would be grateful.

Thanks again Ralf.
 

SFIV1967

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I'm interested in knowing more about the chambered Bluesbirds with spruce tops, and especially the routing patterns that have been used.
One of our members had X-rayed his Corona made Bluesbird, unfortunatelly those pictures are no more visible. But a Corona catalog (the 2002 Fender frontline catalog, page 12) had a little picture of the routing used in the mahogany. The routing used in Corona was different from the routing used in Westerly.

guildbluesbirdsch1.th.jpg
101_2570.jpg



Ralf
 

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I have a copy of K.O.M.A's x-ray pic. I'm using it in an upcoming Nightbird article with his permission.

2000-Bluesbird-P90-XRay.png
 
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Ralf and Gary, thanks for your replies. The pics show well the patterns used in these Bluesbirds. Is it known how the Westerly built instruments differ in the routing? I'm curious about the void under the bridge area shown in your images: what do you think its function is? And do you know if the arched tops in these guitars are carved on the under side (and fairly thin and resonant, with or without bracing) or simply flat and thick under the top's arching, like in an LP?

I apologize for the barrage of questions (I have a lot more!), but these details are interesting. I'm thinking of building some guitars that are similar in design. I'll have to study Hans Moust's book a bit more.

Thanks again for your thoughts, and taking the time to reply.
 

SFIV1967

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Is it known how the Westerly built instruments differ in the routing?
Only as far as we can look into the cavities on Westerly built Bluesbirds from the second half of the 90ies. No x-ray so far. Also I never took pictures of the cavities, but if you search for Bluesbird on Google there are multiple pictures of the opend potentiometer chamber, so you see certain differences. I believe also on GAD's blog there are such pictures of the open potentiometer chambers.

I'm curious about the void under the bridge area shown in your images: what do you think its function is?
I'd say in order to transfer the string vibration from the saddle onto the maple cap and to decouple it from the mahogany body. It will increase the acoustic properties but avoids feedback.

And do you know if the arched tops in these guitars are carved on the under side (and fairly thin and resonant, with or without bracing) or simply flat and thick under the top's arching, like in an LP?
The 90ies Westerly, the 2000's Corona and the Newark St. maple caps should be like on a Les Paul.

Ralf
 
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DThomasC

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I'm curious about the void under the bridge area shown in your images: what do you think its function is?

Somewhere, sometime, I read an article about the Nightbird. It was revealed in that article that George Gruhn, the designed of the Nightbird, wanted the body to be hollow under the bridge. I have always assumed that the tiny cavity was a nod to the instructions, if not the intent, of Mr. Gruhn.

OK. Found an article by George himself: https://www.vintageguitar.com/3275/1985-guild-nightbird-prototype/

The late 1990's to early 2000's Bluesbirds from Westerly and Corona were clearly modeled after the Nightbird. Less bling, but the body shapes appear to be identical, and the Bluesbirds are chambered in the same way. It is not known (by me) if the chambering is identical. Someday I'll need to make an appointment with my chiropractor and bring my Nightbird, Westerly Bluesbird, and Corona Bluesdbird with me. I think he charges only $25 for an X-ray.
 

SFIV1967

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I have a copy of K.O.M.A's x-ray pic. I'm using it in an upcoming Nightbird article with his permission.
But wait a minute. A Corona Bluesbird is routed differently from a Westerly Bluesbird, so I doubt it would apply to a Nightbird either.

Someday I'll need to make an appointment with my chiropractor and bring my Nightbird, Westerly Bluesbird, and Corona Bluesbird with me.
You can save $25 as the Corona Bluesbird X-ray is above already. (Post #9)
Ralf
 
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DThomasC

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A Corona Bluesbird is routed differently from a Westerly Bluesbird,...

Are they? I don't doubt it, but I haven't seen actual evidence either.

That's why I'd like to have all three of my 'birds imaged. Simultaneously would be great, but that would require big machine. Hmm... Cornell isn't too far from me and they have a veterinarian school. Maybe they have an x-ray machine for elephants.
 

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Are they? I don't doubt it, but I haven't seen actual evidence either.

That's why I'd like to have all three of my 'birds imaged. Simultaneously would be great, but that would require big machine. Hmm... Cornell isn't too far from me and they have a veterinarian school. Maybe they have an x-ray machine for elephants.

Try the Cornell Feline Health Center. I don't know what equipment you'd have access to but I'm sure a donation would be appreciated.
 

DThomasC

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Try the Cornell Feline Health Center. I don't know what equipment you'd have access to but I'm sure a donation would be appreciated.

Certain members of my family have already contributed tens of thousands of USD to the Cornell Feline Health Center. Maybe they don't need to name the library after us, but a few x-rays doesn't seem out of the question.
 

fronobulax

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Certain members of my family have already contributed tens of thousands of USD to the Cornell Feline Health Center. Maybe they don't need to name the library after us, but a few x-rays doesn't seem out of the question.

Cats everywhere thank you and your family.
 

DThomasC

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Cats everywhere thank you and your family.

Not so much me as my sisters, though I generally have a great appreciation and respect for non-humans of all kinds. And, BTW, the Feline Health Center is not just a cat shelter. Actually, Cornell is a tremendous asset to western NY. The College of Agriculture really helps the local farming community an an immeasurable way.

If I find a good way to image my 'birds then I'll pick up a NS Bluesbird too. Only seems right.
 
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