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Thread: Guild M-20 made in California...is this a scam?

  1. #1

    Guild M-20 made in California...is this a scam?

    I would like to buy a used Guild M-20 that I just found in a local shop, so I would need some help understanding if it's a legit Guild or not. The guitar itself should be in very good condition, in principle, but there are some things that don't look right at all.

    https://imgur.com/a/ux4p3Ua

    The headstock is the most worrying. It just doesn't look normal to me, from its very strange 'binding' (which looks quite wobbly and incomplete, given how the white line is 'fading out') to the truss-rod cover, which looks like it's been carved by a luthier after one too many beers.

    The serial number on the certificate of authenticity matches the one in the guitar (as you can see in the pictures), and it should indicate that it's been made in California. If I understood correctly how Guild's serial numbers work, this should be a model produced in 2005, but at the shop they told me it's a pretty recent one (2015).

    Thanks to all in advance for your help. Hopefully it's not a scam...

  2. #2
    to me it looks legit. someone added a g-shield and incarved the trc and pinstriped the headstock by hand, and changed the tuner buttons or tuners. terrible job, but the guitar might be great.
    my 2 ct, all the best,
    michael.

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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by krysh View Post
    to me it looks legit. someone added a g-shield and incarved the trc and pinstriped the headstock by hand, and changed the tuner buttons or tuners. terrible job, but the guitar might be great.
    Terrible job indeed. Also: is it me or one of the tuner buttons is broken? Apart from that, the guitar looks impeccable.

    I guess that for what they sell it for (850 euros shipped) I could take the risk, but I'll give myself time to reflect before taking a decision.

  4. #4
    Definitely from Oxnard, which would have to be 2015, not 2005. The headstock has been altered, maybe with an overlay. Here’s a stock headstock from an Oxnard M-20.

    Chris

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  5. #5
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8cloud8 View Post
    I would like to buy a used Guild M-20 that I just found in a local shop, so I would need some help understanding if it's a legit Guild or not. The guitar itself should be in very good condition, in principle, but there are some things that don't look right at all.

    https://imgur.com/a/ux4p3Ua

    The headstock is the most worrying. It just doesn't look normal to me, from its very strange 'binding' (which looks quite wobbly and incomplete, given how the white line is 'fading out') to the truss-rod cover, which looks like it's been carved by a luthier after one too many beers.
    Welcome aboard, 8cloud!
    If you're new to the brand then your confusion's understandable.
    Looks legit from here too, with "what Krysh and Acornhouse said": the headstock cover was added and the TRC engraved after original production.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8cloud8 View Post
    The serial number on the certificate of authenticity matches the one in the guitar (as you can see in the pictures), and it should indicate that it's been made in California. If I understood correctly how Guild's serial numbers work, this should be a model produced in 2005, but at the shop they told me it's a pretty recent one (2015).

    Thanks to all in advance for your help. Hopefully it's not a scam...

    Re s/n:
    Guild's s/n chart only covers instruments made through New Hartford production, so far.
    That was the last production location under Fender ownership.
    Fender owned Guild from '95-2014 then they sold Guild to Cordoba Music Group, who built a new factory for US-made flat-tops in Oxnard CA.
    The M20 was the first model built in Oxnard, (also don't think they actually shipped any guitars until 2016 but I could be wrong there).
    This piece has the characteristic laser-etched plate on the heel block carrying the s/n, a practice introduced in Oxnard, and they implemented a new s/n system there, too: the prefix is actually "C16" not "CI6"
    So, legit but modified.
    Purists would consider that a value deduction.
    New owner reports give it generally good-to-high satisfaction rating.
    Let us know how it goes!
    Last edited by adorshki; 06-28-2019 at 07:39 PM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  6. #6
    Definitely a 2016 model that someone has flubbed the headstock up on. These can be had regularly for around $800-$1000 in excellent Used condition on Ebay and Reverb without the headstock issue. That should give you an idea of price on these models and what you should be paying for it. I would expect one that has the Headstock modified like the one you showed in the pic would sell for less in my opinion.

    Best of Luck.

    TX
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  7. #7
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    I suspect someone was trying to sell the guitar for more that it was worth and tried to add the upscale type headstock. Not so good with the engraver and the truss rod cover. Could they have broken the headstock and then fixed and covered the damage with the new top lay ? Who knows. Ask to see the BACK of the headstock and look for damage.
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  8. #8
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    Looks legit, as others have noted. I own a 2018 m20, love it- play it daily. Installed an l LR Baggs lyric. Sounds excellent through my Fishman loudbox mini. Full, warm hog sound.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW63 View Post
    I suspect someone was trying to sell the guitar for more that it was worth and tried to add the upscale type headstock. Not so good with the engraver and the truss rod cover. Could they have broken the headstock and then fixed and covered the damage with the new top lay ? Who knows. Ask to see the BACK of the headstock and look for damage.
    https://imgur.com/kUBgr6L
    This is it. It looks fine to me, so it might just be a bad job at revamping the headstock. By the way, the shop keeps denying these problems and is avoiding my questions. For a total of 970 dollars, I think it's simply not worth the risk.

  10. #10
    Senior Member SFIV1967's Avatar
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    C16 means California (=Oxnard) 2016 made. Headstock veneer, truss rod cover and tuners (or tuner buttons) are not original anymore.
    Here's the model page: https://guildguitars.com/g/m-20-in-natural/

    Ralf

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