GF-50 12 string

Cameleye

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Just took in in trade a '87 GF-50 12 string. Haven't owned a Guild 12 in 20 years.
Action is very low and the guitar is amazingly playable. The saddle however is very low.
Not a problem unless the geometry of the top changes. Hope not!
Came tuned up to standard and I'm wondering if this is a good idea.
Back in the day I always tuned 12 strings down a whole step. Should I now?
Or can these modern (yes I know, 1987 is not technically "modern") guitars handle this ?
Thanks, Ce.
 

davismanLV

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
19,197
Reaction score
11,816
Location
U.S.A. : Nevada : Las Vegas
Guild Total
2
Congrats! That's kind of a rare beast isn't it? I don't remember seeing a whole lot of GF-50-12's, if I've ever seen one. Would love to see a photo. I'd say that as long as the guitar is structurally sound, tuning down can only help relieve the stress of all those strings pulling. I'd say do it. If anyone has a reason not to, then correct me. Plenty of people here tune their 12's down a half or whole step. I'd say do it. What a great guitar. One day it'll probably need a neck reset, but until that time, tune down and play on!! :encouragement:

p.s. - trying to find an older GF-50 12..... no luck. Is that what the label says?
 
Last edited:

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,442
Reaction score
8,956
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
Congratulations, it's relatively rare to see one at all. But another GF-50-12 Bld. with GF5000033 is also for sale currently on Reverb but has very high action, so clearly seems to need a neck reset.

Since Tom asked to see one, here's the one on Reverb currently (it is missing the heel cap):

vagnzhy70gw5buop5bwv.jpg
n5atldlbgv84vnqv9ubw.jpg
ks460j9i7a44trovohji.jpg


Ralf
 

davismanLV

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
19,197
Reaction score
11,816
Location
U.S.A. : Nevada : Las Vegas
Guild Total
2
Golly, thanks Ralf!! That's a rare beast. And two coming to light right at the same time. Ralf, reading that label it looks like it ends with Bld. For Blonde? Would that just mean non-sunburst? Kinda like NT, which seems more appropriate. Wondering is all......
 

Cougar

Enlightened Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
5,321
Reaction score
3,016
Location
North Idaho
Guild Total
5
Came tuned up to standard and I'm wondering if this is a good idea....

As Tom says, you can certainly tune it down a half or whole step. Although I keep all my 12-strings tuned to standard pitch....

Nice trade, by the way!
 

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,442
Reaction score
8,956
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
Bld. For Blonde? Would that just mean non-sunburst? Kinda like NT, which seems more appropriate. Wondering is all......
I'm not sure why they used both Bld. (blonde) and NT in parallel in the past or if somebody had defined a difference between the two. I believe Tacoma and New Hartford was all NT, not sure about Corona.
Ralf
 

hansmoust

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
9,201
Reaction score
3,505
Location
Netherlands
I'm not sure why they used both Bld. (blonde) and NT in parallel in the past or if somebody had defined a difference between the two.

They were not used in parallel; they both mean something else ( page 48 of 'The Guild Guitar Book').

In the case of the GF-50-12Bld it is obviously a mistake; should be NT.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Congrats! That's kind of a rare beast isn't it? I don't remember seeing a whole lot of GF-50-12's, if I've ever seen one
Gotta admit that one caught me by surprise, too.
If I ever saw one before I've forgotten.
A GF50 was my beloved 16" lower bout F-body with a flat rosewood back, so I see this as the Gruhn-Walker version of the F312.
S/N chart shows #43 as last one built in '87, and even though that period's known to be rife with errors, that one might be correct.
 
Last edited:

Cameleye

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
The label in my Guild 12 reads: GF50-12 NT.
The serial ends in 37.
I'm not good at posting pictures but if anyone would care to PM me their email, I'll send what I have.
The guitar is in excellent condition with very little wear and has an extremely tight grained top with tons of tiny little crossgrained curl to it.
Also came with the original HSC.
Thanks to all for the replies!
 

JohnW63

Enlightened Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
6,293
Reaction score
2,217
Location
Southern California
Guild Total
4
Wouldn't low action with low saddle mean it does NOT need a neck reset ? Low saddle and still HIGH action would mean that. I think what the OP has in one some one adjusted to be as easy to play as possible. Do the straight edge on the fretboard to bridge test.
 

davismanLV

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
19,197
Reaction score
11,816
Location
U.S.A. : Nevada : Las Vegas
Guild Total
2
Hey CE, I'm sorry, I actually mistook Ralf's photos for YOUR guitar, which explains my comment up above!! Now it makes sense. Your label is correct!! It's an NT (natural top) on a dark wooded guitar. Bld would mean maple and no stain, I believe. Anyway, send me a photo or two, I'll post them. I assume you're looking to sell it?
 

Cougar

Enlightened Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
5,321
Reaction score
3,016
Location
North Idaho
Guild Total
5
Wouldn't low action with low saddle mean it does NOT need a neck reset ?

Well yeah, the action is the deciding factor. However, the low saddle means the break angle is somewhat compromised, which robs some vibe going into the soundboard. A stopgap measure to delay a neck reset is to ramp the bridge pin holes, which recovers some of the break angle.
 

Cameleye

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
While I'm really enjoying the tones this 12 produces I'm finding that my arthritic hands can only play this thing for a few songs, then it's time to take a break.
The action is pretty low (what with the low saddle and all) but I'm kinda wondering where this is going.
 

GuildFS4612CE

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
3,350
Reaction score
490
Tune down to D standard and either transpose or use a capo...the string tension will be lower...and you'll put off having to do a reset.

Or look into lower tension strings...maybe there's a 12 string set of silk and bronze.

And try not to grip the strings too hard...you only have to depress them enough to contact the frets...fingers don't have to feel the fretboard.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Tune down to D standard and either transpose or use a capo...the string tension will be lower...and you'll put off having to do a reset.

Or look into lower tension strings...maybe there's a 12 string set of silk and bronze.
Several in fact, and S&S too, GHS for sure lists both types, D'Addario silk& steel only, IIRC.
Note in a '72 price list Guild themselves listed S&S 12 string sets in both light and medium gauges.
As I like to say, read between those lines...
http://www.westerlyguildguitars.com/files/pricelists/72-7.pdf
Still list a set of silk/steel on the '88 list, too, which is same era as the GF50-12.
 

Cameleye

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Thanks to all above for the suggestions, much obliged.
I'll try dropping down to D first and using the capo more.
Meanwhile, I'll look for some lighter gauge strings.
I really am impressed with the tone of this 12 stringer. I feel the rosewood gives it a deeper and less jangly sound overall.
Just what I was looking for.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Thanks to all above for the suggestions, much obliged.
I'll try dropping down to D first and using the capo more.
Meanwhile, I'll look for some lighter gauge strings.
I really am impressed with the tone of this 12 stringer. I feel the rosewood gives it a deeper and less jangly sound overall.
Just what I was looking for.
I myself was on a search to tone down the jangle on my F65ce, same body outline (albeit cutaway); 3"deep and arched back maple body.
Finally hit on using GHS silk and steel lights tuned a full step down.
You might be quite pleasantly surprised at how s&s or even s&b sound even at standard pitch.
Intonation does get a little touchy when tuned down to D standard but it might be less of an issue with a 12...or maybe not.
I can transpose pretty easily if necessary, because I can't abide using capos.
For a more in depth explanation of my hypotheses and the results, see my thread here, with a cell-phone vid of the F65ce and feedback from folks who've heard previous clips on it.
Posts numbers 5, 8 and 10 in particular may be of interest.
Again, some of the ideas are hypothetical on my part but it seems to have worked and may give you ideas of your own.
The general principle of the difference in total set tension differences between silk-wound and bronze wrapped strings and how it might affect the top applies equally to 12's and 6's, and the easier playability of he silk types is an added bonus for me at least:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?199255-Al-s-Farewell-Tour
There was also a similar thread dedicated to 12-strings specifically and another member asked a similar question yesterday so I guess I'll go try to dig that one up too for both of ya, stay tuned.
Oh, in fact, here it is now:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?199016-12-string-string-guage/page2
Mixed in with our usual digressions are some good solid suggestions for 12-ers specifically.
 
Last edited:
Top