Bigsby for M75

dbirchett

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The biggest improvement to a B5 or B7 Bigsby is a lower tension spring. I like the Reverend one but it is not available in gold. The guy that does the Brick'sBiggsFix does have one in gold, tho'. https://bricksbiggsfix.com/product/sssg/

His main product might help as well. Looks good if a bit pricey. But for the aggravation it saves, may be well worth it.
 

miasmo

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Ah, right. I'd forgotten why I gave up on the notion of vibrato-ing my Aristocrat. Not a fan of the B7 or its Guild variant either. (And I have a B6 on-hand waiting for a suitable guitar.)

-Dave-

What is the issue with the B6 that makes it unsuitable for an Aristocrat? Did you attempt to install it?
 

miasmo

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There is no Guild equivalent of a B3, only for a B6 and I doubt a B6 will even fit, lengthwise. Even then, a B3 would only work if you have relatively high action and a very manly string gauge. B7 or the Guild equivalent.

A couple years back I was at my repair guy's shop and he had a NS Aristocrat with a Bigsby that was done and ready to be picked up by the owner. I played it a little bit. The Bigsby seemed to work fine (although I have never owned a guitar with a Bigsby, so I have no reference for what is "fine.") I recently asked the repair guy if he remembered what the Bigsby model was. He actually dug up a photo of himself playing it and confirmed that it was a B3. I have no idea if anything was done to it to secure the floating bridge. I don't remember thinking the action or string gage were any different from what I'm used to.
 

txbumper57

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What is the issue with the B6 that makes it unsuitable for an Aristocrat? Did you attempt to install it?

The B6 doesn't have a tension bar for the strings like the B7. The B6 won't allow for the proper break angle of the strings across the bridge which in turn won't allow the guitar to intonate properly. The B6 string bar is almost even with the top of the string saddles on the bridge making the break angle almost flat or close to 0 degrees. The Tension bar on the B7 changes the angle of the strings so it does allow for the proper break angle over the bridge (approx 30 degrees is optimal break angle) but it is much heavier and requires drilling into the top of the guitar itself to secure it.

Hope that info helps.

TX
 

txbumper57

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A couple years back I was at my repair guy's shop and he had a NS Aristocrat with a Bigsby that was done and ready to be picked up by the owner. I played it a little bit. The Bigsby seemed to work fine (although I have never owned a guitar with a Bigsby, so I have no reference for what is "fine.") I recently asked the repair guy if he remembered what the Bigsby model was. He actually dug up a photo of himself playing it and confirmed that it was a B3. I have no idea if anything was done to it to secure the floating bridge. I don't remember thinking the action or string gage were any different from what I'm used to.

Back in the 50's and 60's the B3 model was what they used before they B6. It is shaped like the B6 model but is much shorter in length allowing for more distance between the strings at the bigsby string bar and the bridge of the guitar. The longer distance between the bigsby and bridge changes the string geometry a bit and allows for the strings to have some break angle over the bridge without the use of a tension bar. You can make a B3 work but you have to make sure you have enough Neck angle in your guitar to be able to have it work properly before installation.

TX
 

parker_knoll

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Has the OP seen this?

You'll see the B7 comes very close to the bridge (just like on a Les Paul). This results in an extreme break angle, but he's corrected this with the little gizmo cited by dbirchett above.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Guild-Ar...606402?hash=item3b33f29542:g:GZEAAOSwRmNdEPDM

s-l1600.jpg
 
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Default

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I had the same problem with the DeArmond, and jacked up the vibrato with nylon washers. Not elegant, but it works.
 

dbirchett

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This is an issue that arises from time to time. Here is a discussion from March 2014. http://gretschpages.com/media/img/fretboard/2015/12/IMG_6614_zpsly0xefhd.jpg.540x540_q85_autocrop.jpg

Basically, the B3 may work if you have a lot of things go right. But it probably is risky. The B7 is the norm but an imperfect one. Mounting the B7 with shims or with a Briggs fix would be the safer way to go.

There seems to be a standard that if the bridge is a floating one, you use a Bigsby without a tension bar. If it has a fixed bridge that screws into the top, you use a tension bar Bigsby. Not an iron clad rule but a rule of thumb.

Good luck and show us what you do.
 

miasmo

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Thanks to all who replied. I sincerely appreciate all the advice, info, suggestions, etc.

I emailed Cordoba requesting specs for this Guildsby:
https://shop.guildguitars.com/produ...-models-starfire-iii-ce-100d-x-175b-aluminum/

Finally received a response. Here it is for anyone who is interested:

No problem. We were actually just working on compiling all that stuff for this very reason. Here are some specs for ya:

Color: Aluminum
Material: Aluminum
String Spacing: 48mm
Minimum Body Thickness: 1.5"
Arm Length: 6.5"
Length: 7.5"
Width: 4.25"
Weight: 9.6 oz
Included in the package:
0.9" Tension Spring
0.05" Optional Tension Washer
Mounting Screws

I think I am going to order this one and give it a try. I'll report my results.
 
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Walter Broes

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I say don't do it, but I've said that before in this thread. You'll end up with what you can see in this clip : a Bigsby that's too long, so the spring cup will butt up against your bridge, which is far from ideal. Also, you'll have virtually no string break angle from the Bigsby to the bridge, and that won't work very well either, if at all.

 

txbumper57

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^^^^ I agree completely with Walter, That is the equivalent of a B6 and It won't work right. The String break angle will be non existent. It is your decision though. Have you thought of trying one of the Bigsby models they use on Fender Telecasters? I think those even have a Mounting system that you don't have to drill into the top for. They won't say Guild on them but they should be available with Bigsby on them instead of Fender. Just another suggestion.

TX
 

parker_knoll

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^^^^ I agree completely with Walter, That is the equivalent of a B6 and It won't work right. The String break angle will be non existent. It is your decision though. Have you thought of trying one of the Bigsby models they use on Fender Telecasters? I think those even have a Mounting system that you don't have to drill into the top for. They won't say Guild on them but they should be available with Bigsby on them instead of Fender. Just another suggestion.

TX

The problem with those is they have no hinge; they're fixed at a right angle so only work on flat tops. What MIGHT work is a Mosrite style vibrato. You can get Chinese ones on Ebay or superior Chinese ones from Hallmark. I have a Hallmark one so can give dimensions if desired.
 

miasmo

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I say don't do it, but I've said that before in this thread. You'll end up with what you can see in this clip : a Bigsby that's too long, so the spring cup will butt up against your bridge, which is far from ideal. Also, you'll have virtually no string break angle from the Bigsby to the bridge, and that won't work very well either, if at all.



Wow! I've seen that video before and didn't notice how close it is to the bridge! The specs from Cordoba list a length slightly shorter than a B3. I guess they are measuring differently. Now I'm looking at these things:
https://www.guitarfetish.com/Xtrem-Floating-Tailpiece-Vibrato-Gold-Finish_p_4424.html

I don't care for the look of them, but it might be a better bet functionally. Any thoughts on the Xtrem?
 

miasmo

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The problem with those is they have no hinge; they're fixed at a right angle so only work on flat tops. What MIGHT work is a Mosrite style vibrato. You can get Chinese ones on Ebay or superior Chinese ones from Hallmark. I have a Hallmark one so can give dimensions if desired.

Ooh... The Mosrites look cool! But they're strictly for solidbodies, no? The Aristocrat is an archtop hollowbody.
 

matsickma

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I was playing a M75 and thinking of this discussion and considered the concept of using the M75 harp stop as the spring for a vibrato used in some of the SG's and Firebirds. Didn't think it all the way through but was using my palm to press down on the harp to get the effect. Maybe a Chet Type Bigsby arm and some kind of fastener.
M
 

parker_knoll

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I was playing a M75 and thinking of this discussion and considered the concept of using the M75 harp stop as the spring for a vibrato used in some of the SG's and Firebirds. Didn't think it all the way through but was using my palm to press down on the harp to get the effect. Maybe a Chet Type Bigsby arm and some kind of fastener.
M

That will pitch the strings up rather than down so it's a slightly different effect.
 

miasmo

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So I finally pulled the trigger and bought a B3 and installed it. I haven't drilled any holes. As a temporary fix, I have it held in place with the end pin and a couple of washers with a piece of felt to avoid scratching the surface of the Bigsby. (See photo.)

The break angle is very shallow. (See photo.) The upside of that is that it holds tune very well. But it sounds a little bit weird in some spots. I can still raise the bridge a tiny bit and still be within my comfort range. Hoping that will cure the slight buzz in some spots. I'll try to post some video soon so you guys can hear what I mean.

Guild_M75_Bigsby.jpg

Guild_M75_Bigsby_end_pin.jpg

Guild_M75_Bigsby_bridge.jpg
 
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