A New Hartford-built Fender Kingman

merlin6666

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That separation you described is supposed to be "normal" for Fender Custom Shop guitars? Can that be true?

walrus

Not sure what it actually looks like, but I thought the vast majority of Fenders have bolt-on necks and maybe those have more of a gap than the uncommon dovetail models? Just some wild guessing here ...
 

txbumper57

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That separation you described is supposed to be "normal" for Fender Custom Shop guitars? Can that be true?

walrus

He has 2 other dovetail neck joint Fender Custom shop acoustics from New Hartford and all three apparently showed some signs of the separation. He thought it was just a product of mating an electric guitar neck to an acoustic body but these necks were actually made for the acoustics with an electric style headstock. I knew it wasn't right as soon as I saw it and confirmation from my Luthier just verified that.

TX
 

twocorgis

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He has 2 other dovetail neck joint Fender Custom shop acoustics from New Hartford and all three apparently showed some signs of the separation. He thought it was just a product of mating an electric guitar neck to an acoustic body but these necks were actually made for the acoustics with an electric style headstock. I knew it wasn't right as soon as I saw it and confirmation from my Luthier just verified that.

TX

That can't be right. My TPD-2 had no such thing, in fact, the craftsmanship was exemplary. If I had gotten along with the neck better, I'd still own it.
 

SFIV1967

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Some are and some aren't. There is a video somewhere here on the forum from New Hartford where a tech is starting the pore filler on the back of a D55 IIRC. The RW looks so beautiful unfinished before he puts the pore filler on and then he spreads this Mud Colored paste on the back that significantly darkens and changes the tint of the back and sides of the RW on the guitar even after they Squeegee all the excess off and sand it down for Clear.
Sorry to hear about the problem of the guitar when it arrived. To bad. Anyway, I found what you mean and you are correct what you remembered! I never noticed that, I saw the video a few times before and always somehow thought about hog when I saw it. What is really surprising however is the color of the neck! That seems to be extremely light colored wood. Is that mahogany ??? I thought all D-55 had a mahpgany neck? I didn't remember such a D-55 with such light colored neck. But maybe they apply the same color of filler to it.

https://youtu.be/UVVTSuC-01k?t=1558

Ralf
 

Aristera

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That can't be right. My TPD-2 had no such thing, in fact, the craftsmanship was exemplary. If I had gotten along with the neck better, I'd still own it.

I'm with you Sandy. I checked out my New Hartford Custom Shop Master Designed Dread 12-String and all looks well.
 

txbumper57

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That can't be right. My TPD-2 had no such thing, in fact, the craftsmanship was exemplary. If I had gotten along with the neck better, I'd still own it.

The TPD Series had a completely different Neck than the Kingman, Newporter, and Balboa models which all were shaped like the Fender Strat Boat Neck soft V. Completely different animals. His reasoning was that the other two he owns had the same thing on them but that just means that the other two guitars need neck resets too. I can tell you on the Kingman VRF that from the factory there was no finish along the neck to body joint at all, unlike the TPD series and Guilds from the same place that all had fully finished neck joints.

Not sure what it actually looks like, but I thought the vast majority of Fenders have bolt-on necks and maybe those have more of a gap than the uncommon dovetail models? Just some wild guessing here ...

They made both Bolt on Neck Fender Acoustics (with a back plate like a Strat) and Glued Dovetail Joint Neck Fender Acoustics in the Custom Shop at New Hartford that had the Electric guitar looking headstock. Two different style depending on which model and what price range. They also made the TPD Series which had a normal Acoustic looking headstock and was also a Glued Dovetail Neck Joint.

TX
 
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PAPADON

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It reminds me of my 68 Fender Palomino with the bolt on neck. Being a child of the 60's the head stock never bothered me all that much but I simply couldn't live with that awful pick guard so I swapped it out years ago. It's still in my parts box somewhere around here.

4QMn-zcNiL03kxF_qhBcywuGdz9aJNX_ws-T-7mEEhLqOwCSNbPt7J6NcYJECgQQKJt3AxqZXs0DhBC3ncn7Hr-CvMkAnDLQZjbjnIEAifxHUO69Y3jwS8ijowW1e1sjUOZHpf9r3lD11A-9jpxH5FteSaswcsoukefnvM4-vRJtFiTnKorUX836vFY1ijEFp95EYjo-tQolETztkIde4CyMj1Fu20kOWpTP5aCNNXBnTuRnyXwOGjJjm7fnpDshmTD5AnvI1rb3ZB_GwtlsEGwKO53qdR9BW2MXERRRSB3po-KXDYSCIYMHwHpNmR6VmZ05Omun47fjRv0GkW0Qk5VCU5DlebTbxLn-7taS73uuXvbmzhFNWugxZMdmnMkRZJshps2r3MWlXqF7xuo7NzP1KfvIiVvF6ADAdK4CGCUtSXLqo_RJNj31dGJb6r1mRL-tia2CcmqapK032aTQqcskUY5HWZ2SwSCSNrr1S4yAFOPCxEPNLRALuD7SADU769x1BQmQyPbABI2Lm5-XQLsT2qVl__HJV_OY1Uok_r-oDv1iUQsHsD8Vi-ggmu8eUi1N6jP2WD9MoEQ4Y5YLN-imeExhwpeQ2fwPnV4evXDkQ8lUr5IoCffHyYPSRH8Y5wBWBWwOa5IdKDQaEEmXXFzedHCMAP8=w682-h870-no
 
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adorshki

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It reminds me of my 68 Fender Palomino with the bolt on neck. Being a child of the 60's the head stock never bothered me all that much but I simply couldn't live with that awful pick guard so I swapped it out years ago. It's still in my parts box somewhere around here.

4QMn-zcNiL03kxF_qhBcywuGdz9aJNX_ws-T-7mEEhLqOwCSNbPt7J6NcYJECgQQKJt3AxqZXs0DhBC3ncn7Hr-CvMkAnDLQZjbjnIEAifxHUO69Y3jwS8ijowW1e1sjUOZHpf9r3lD11A-9jpxH5FteSaswcsoukefnvM4-vRJtFiTnKorUX836vFY1ijEFp95EYjo-tQolETztkIde4CyMj1Fu20kOWpTP5aCNNXBnTuRnyXwOGjJjm7fnpDshmTD5AnvI1rb3ZB_GwtlsEGwKO53qdR9BW2MXERRRSB3po-KXDYSCIYMHwHpNmR6VmZ05Omun47fjRv0GkW0Qk5VCU5DlebTbxLn-7taS73uuXvbmzhFNWugxZMdmnMkRZJshps2r3MWlXqF7xuo7NzP1KfvIiVvF6ADAdK4CGCUtSXLqo_RJNj31dGJb6r1mRL-tia2CcmqapK032aTQqcskUY5HWZ2SwSCSNrr1S4yAFOPCxEPNLRALuD7SADU769x1BQmQyPbABI2Lm5-XQLsT2qVl__HJV_OY1Uok_r-oDv1iUQsHsD8Vi-ggmu8eUi1N6jP2WD9MoEQ4Y5YLN-imeExhwpeQ2fwPnV4evXDkQ8lUr5IoCffHyYPSRH8Y5wBWBWwOa5IdKDQaEEmXXFzedHCMAP8=w682-h870-no
I've got a catalog from that era or probably a couple of years later, what I noted when I first skimmed (had to be pre-'74) it was that all of those acoustics were named after southern California beaches, ah, I do believe it's this one:
110611.jpg

Don't recall the "Palomino", not that it matters, but I did and still do think the headstock is actually pretty cool even though I don't dig the bridges.
Don't think I noticed 'em in that catalog, though.
EDIT: Don't think I ever picked up on those adjustable saddles, either. Wild!
Now suspect those may have had more to do with the poor tone reputation than anything else, but there was a time when I would have loved 'em.
Ah now I also see they appeared to have only been used on a couple o models.
Back to blaming Fender in general.
:glee:
Before I got my first Guild had one of these, a Fender F210, early '80's MIK solid spruce top, said "Set-up in the USA" on the box.
Fender-F-230-Acoustic-Guitar-RH.jpg

Always like the peghead shape on that one.
It was stolen which turned out to be a blessing in disguise because it led me to Guild on a buddy's advice.
 
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Westerly Wood

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Pretty nice looking guitar with interesting appointments. I'm not in the market for something like this but would really like to hear what it sounds like. I've only ever owned 2 Fender acoustics and they were way back in the day. Both were lousy but I know they've built some decent ones in recent years. A couple members here have them I think and if memory serves me right they are happy with them.

darn, i was thinking you would have this in your cart by now. it is an interesting D55.
 

txbumper57

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darn, i was thinking you would have this in your cart by now. it is an interesting D55.

I bought it and had to send it back already Wood because it has a Neck Separation at the joint and is in need of a neck reset.


TX
 

Westerly Wood

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I bought it and had to send it back already Wood because it has a Neck Separation at the joint and is in need of a neck reset.


TX

well if not Richard, then my 2nd guess was you TX for sure. sorry to hear it was not structurally sound, it sure looked like a very unique D55.
 

PAPADON

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ADORSHKI -Interesting stuff. They only made the Palomino from 68 thru 70 so I suspect there weren't as many around as other models. It's primary claim to fame was that Johnny Cash used or at least promoted it in their ads at the time.
 

davismanLV

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What is really surprising however is the color of the neck! That seems to be extremely light colored wood. Is that mahogany ??? I thought all D-55 had a mahpgany neck? I didn't remember such a D-55 with such light colored neck. But maybe they apply the same color of filler to it.
Ralf
Ralf, not sure if they do add "tone" or color to the necks on the D55's. My D65S has a D55 neck, and compared to the maple it looks dark-ish, but certainly is in the mahogany range of color. Most mahogany is stained for furniture and guitars, I believe. Did it look like this:

rtabJv.jpg


That may seem dark next to the maple, but when you get it near the dark stained rosewood of my DV72, it looks super blonde. You think they stained the necks that went on the D55 a bit??
 

txbumper57

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well if not Richard, then my 2nd guess was you TX for sure. sorry to hear it was not structurally sound, it sure looked like a very unique D55.

I can honestly say Wood that the guitar looked gorgeous but I can say for a fact that it in no way came close to the tone of any of the D55's I have owned especially the New Hartford ones. May have just been the strings on it but it was definitely not in the same class tone wise.

TX
 

txbumper57

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Looks like the seller has relisted this one with the same price or best offer on it. He does mention the neck issues in the ad and also included 3 of the photos I sent him. He didn't include the ones that have the piece of paper between the neck and body showing how deep the separation is.

https://reverb.com/item/24947248-fe...ild-d-55-engelmann-honduran-rosewood-12-of-25

Here are a few pics of the how deep the separation is that I took. You can see in the last few pics that the separation is not only at the heel cap but it is also towards the top side of the guitar as well. Almost like there is a hump in the center of the neck heel on the bass side and that is the only part making contact with the body. The separation is also on the treble side but not as predominant. Hope these pics help for anyone wanting all the info before possibly taking this one on if you are interested in it.

upnycyeenluesjsriuyz.jpg
gemcqyjb6nv0zp8ot8qq.jpg

h9sjpn1vdsste9zje0qp.jpg
eqhilqpjqegeilhf5h1w.jpg
k6gmwybgpct3ucfvbnde.jpg


TX
 
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txbumper57

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Sorry, was editing my previous post and accidentally double posted. My brain isn't quite working this evening.

TX
 

adorshki

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Sorry, was editing my previous post and accidentally double posted. My brain isn't quite working this evening.
TX
When you showed those, I was kind of fascinated by the fact that apparently the neck joint wasn't finished over.
I know Guild is supposed to be unique in that regard, but it reminded me of the notorious bridge lift problems created by Guild's unusual bridge mounting process, where the hideglue on the bridge overlaps the finished area on the top and the glue-to-finish bond is stronger than the finish-to-wood bond, eventually pulling finish up under stress, creating a gap at the back of the bridge.
Do you think that might be what's going on here?
(That they glued the neck to almost, if not completely finished sides?)
You did establish it's supposed to be a glued-in dovetail, right, or did I miss something?
 

txbumper57

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It is a Glued in Dovetail joint. Let me make it clear that all of my New Hartford Guilds have finished neck to body joints as well as all other New Hartford Guilds I have seen. This looks like it was something specific to these particular Fender models with the Glued in Dovetail neck joint on the Electric style necks. I don't know what is going on with these neck joints to cause this but from the photos I think it is pretty clear that either the base of the neck heel isn't perfectly square with the body or the body has a hump in the center causing the neck not to seat properly along the edges of the joint. I will also note that the guitar had a fair amount of buzz on the high "E" string when strummed openly and other areas on other strings further up the neck. My luthier said this was ultimately caused by the neck joint issue and while the buzzing may have been fixable with a band aid style fix, the proper way to make everything right was to refit the neck joint correctly to the body.


TX
 

chazmo

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That's a shame. Looks like they did a poor job with the tolerances in that neck design. It doesn't seem to really fit the guitar body down by the heel cap.
 
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