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Thread: Guild D-55 possible issue

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tico View Post
    Interesting!

    I have 3 wonderful Guilds from the mid 70s, including the D-55 I bought new.
    Did Guild do this back then?
    I don't believe so.

  2. #12
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tico View Post
    Interesting!

    I have 3 wonderful Guilds from the mid 70s, including the D-55 I bought new.
    Did Guild do this back then?
    To corroborate Grot, actually for sure they didn't.
    Following up on what Chaz said, it was an innovation in New Hartford specifically to help ensure optimum bridge adhesion.
    Prior to that (in Westerly at least) they were unusual among makers for masking off a pad for the bridge which was a bit smaller than the bridge outline itself,**** and then finishing the instrument and gluing on the bridge afterward.
    Although this allowed for a very clean look of the installed bridge, it meant that most of the time there was an area where glue was bonded to finish instead of wood, and the finish-to-wood bond is weaker than the glue-to-finish bond, so some guitars would develop that gap at the back of the bridge under stress.
    My F65ce has it.
    Anyway, New Hartford developed that countersunk method to ensure there would always be a completely glued bridge and the edges will always have that very slight gap because the glue was only used in the countersink area, it didn't go all the way to the edges, to maintain that very clean mounting appearance, just like Grot explained.
    Re top radius yes all flattops actually have some radius, in New Hartford they changed it a slight amount as TX mentioned.
    That allowed 'em to go to medium strings whereas they'd been using lights on regular production dreads for around 20 years at least, it was another NH spec change.
    And all 3 of mine have that "hump" behind the bridge, it's perfectly normal although sure if it was easy I'd slip a camera in there and reassure myself about the bracing, too.
    @JB83: There is the possibility that if the guitar was strung with heavies it might have caused some actual lift; can only repeat what others have said to check for that: Let an actual luthier judge, and any seller compensation should be based on that.
    Since they were already designed for mediums I'd be a little surprised, but it is possible.

    ***Since that original post I've also seen a report from a member who worked in Westerly from late '80's -'90's that at that time they also simply scraped finish off a finished top for the bridge pad. End result was still the same.
    Last edited by adorshki; 11-18-2019 at 09:55 PM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  3. #13

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by The Guilds of Grot View Post
    This!

    Indeed the tops have a routed rectangle where the finish is removed and the bridge plugs into in. About 1/8" to 3/16" all the way around the bridge is not glued to the top!
    Do you know if this is being done currently with the models from China? I have a new ds240 that has less than 1/8" pulling up all along the rear of the bridge. My old yamaha and martin have no bridge gap. I'd hate to not return a guitar that was glued inadequately!

  5. #15
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    Do you know if this is being done currently with the models from China? I have a new ds240 that has less than 1/8" pulling up all along the rear of the bridge. My old yamaha and martin have no bridge gap. I'd hate to not return a guitar that was glued inadequately!
    HI Coffee, welcome aboard!
    Sadly, can't answer that one with certainty, there's virtually no disclosure about little construction details like that in the Chinese factory.
    But it wouldn't surprise me if some kind of technique is used for the same reason that applied traditionally: to ensure a true wood-to-wood bond of bridge-to-top and not a "glue-to-finish" bond that's stronger than the finish-to-wood bond.
    If you're the original owner and it was bought from an authorized Guild dealer it's eligible for a free warranty evaluation, at least.
    When I had my F65ce checked, the guy said it technically was lift and he could tell just by pushing slightly on the top behind the bridge, guess he had enough experience (or eyesight) to see some movement I still can't see, LOL!
    But he also advised a "wait and monitor" action and it has been stable for almost ten years, or even its entire life if it came out of Westerly that way.
    I just didn't notice it until about 3 years in.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  6. #16
    Senior Member dreadnut's Avatar
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    Even if it's not glued all the way to the edge, you shouldn't be able to slide a piece of paper under it, imho.
    TODAY is the TOMORROW you spent all day YESTERDAY acting like there was no.

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  7. #17
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    I've seen a lot of guitars (many of them Guilds) over the years, and every guitar I've ever seen with a bridge-lift problem also has a bowed top.

    Once a top starts to bow, the bridge / top glue bond becomes stressed. (As somone here remarked, "It's hard for flat surface to stay glued to a curved surface!") Add in the possibility that a guitar was stored in a dry environment for long periods of time, tuned to pitch, and bridge lift is almost certain.

    Older Guilds are especially vulnerable to bridge-lift because their bridges were not fully glued down to begin with.

    You can get the bridge reglued, but once you tune up the guitar you may encounter bowing again, because wood has "memory": if the top WAS bowed, under stress it will want to bow again.

    So, in addition to having the bridge reglued, ideally something should be done to alleviate the pull on the top, so it resists bowing.

    Some people also have the bridge plate replaced, which can be effective for a good long time. But removing a bridge plate is tricky and it can be costly.

    The best solution I know of -- stop me if you've heard this one -- is the JLD Bridge Doctor. They're inexpensive and they work.

    Glenn

  8. #18
    If the price is right could you not negotiate for the issue or is it to late ?
    Yes tops are radiused.
    Just jumping questions but a lot of guitars higher end would have bare wood to bare wood bridges mounts

    As to improrts good question , to me poly is tougher stuff though I wouldn't think it makes sense production wise ..... Pump' em out . Lol

    Bottom line if regluing the bridge saying that is the only issue and the price is right and it sings to you it's a no brainier .

    Dang it has a pretty top . 😁

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayk View Post
    if the price is right and it sings to you it's a no brainier . ��
    Couldn't say it better....
    NH 2011 D-40 Standard, 2014 Orpheum 000-12 Fret SH Hog, 2010 F-412, 2010 F-512.

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    Most of the pain associated with my playing comes from having to listen to me. frono

  10. #20
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayk View Post
    Just jumping questions but a lot of guitars higher end would have bare wood to bare wood bridges mounts.

    As to imports good question , to me poly is tougher stuff though I wouldn't think it makes sense production wise ..... Pump' em out . Lol
    Sure poly's tougher but don't think it's got any stronger bond to wood than NCL, in fact seem to recall it's actually a weaker bond (but could be wrong).
    It's the glue on the bridge pulling the finish off the top that's problematic in some cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayk View Post
    Dang it has a pretty top . ��
    Guys this is an old thread that was revived by a new member because it was relevant to his question about a completely different instrument.
    Last edited by adorshki; 11-19-2019 at 05:11 PM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

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