NGD- The long way around

JohnW63

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Well, if you've been paying attention, I was really going back and forth on a CO-1 on Reverb. When the seller got defensive about my questions and said he didn't want me buying it for fear I would find things wrong, I stepped away. Then Ray took a flier on it, for me and bought it to check it out. He posted an audio clip and said it was pretty darn nice. So, I bought it off of him. ( Let's not talk about how much extra I just paid to have Ray check it out on shipping costs. )

I got it today and it looks in really good shape. I through on some new EJ16 strings and gave it a play. It gets loud pretty quickly and plays well up and down the neck. The K&K Pure Mini that the previous owner put in works very well. I'm over all very pleased with it. The ONLY thing is the guitar as a slight fretboard hump on the bass side and the guy has the saddle down so low the 6th string will buzz from fret 11 to about 15. Maybe, down the line I might take the Ray approach and remove the bolt on neck and shave it slightly. For now, I think I will just play it and when the strings need changing, I'll have a new saddle made a few mm taller. I almost think someone made the saddle arc match the fretboard because the base side and treble side are the same height.

I think my Walden with Cedar top, has become redundant.
 

Cougar

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....I'm over all very pleased with it.

Great! Congrats, JW!

The ONLY thing is the guitar as a slight fretboard hump on the bass side....

I think it was my Martin 12-string (bought used) that had a huge hump along with a big bowed neck. Took it to my local luthier... I don't know what they did, but they straightened up the neck (no mystery there) and totally got rid of the hump - without sanding or shaving the fretboard.

In any case, sounds like you got a winner!
 

fronobulax

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Nobody has any business working at the 11th to 15th fret. I just stop counting at about #7

Perhaps I would not have commented if you had said "No one who plays the same styles and genres I do has any business working at the 11th to 15th fret".

;-)
 

Rayk

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Well, if you've been paying attention, I was really going back and forth on a CO-1 on Reverb. When the seller got defensive about my questions and said he didn't want me buying it for fear I would find things wrong, I stepped away. Then Ray took a flier on it, for me and bought it to check it out. He posted an audio clip and said it was pretty darn nice. So, I bought it off of him. ( Let's not talk about how much extra I just paid to have Ray check it out on shipping costs. )

I got it today and it looks in really good shape. I through on some new EJ16 strings and gave it a play. It gets loud pretty quickly and plays well up and down the neck. The K&K Pure Mini that the previous owner put in works very well. I'm over all very pleased with it. The ONLY thing is the guitar as a slight fretboard hump on the bass side and the guy has the saddle down so low the 6th string will buzz from fret 11 to about 15. Maybe, down the line I might take the Ray approach and remove the bolt on neck and shave it slightly. For now, I think I will just play it and when the strings need changing, I'll have a new saddle made a few mm taller. I almost think someone made the saddle arc match the fretboard because the base side and treble side are the same height.

I think my Walden with Cedar top, has become redundant.

I'm glad you like it . The money is still on hold just in case but I guess I can pay off it off now . Lol

Have you straight edged it ? If you do the Ray shave you'd benefit from reset as well giving more saddle height and better tone and volume . Food for thought.

I was going to reply to Cougars post but a lot of that would fit here better so .... Lol


A fret board hump in my experience usauly is the result of bad mating and or inaccuratercy of the neck sizing or finger board sizing shaping Etc .

In the contemporary series the hump issue is solo the fault of a shim between the graphite neck block and the top . The shims are wedged shape and a lot of them are inconsistent in thickness on one side or the other or both mostly thier just to thick .

I'd like to add the neck angle also seems consistently off on this models and to me it's a across the board issue as where the shim issue varies.

If you do a reset the normal way you raise the fret board up and have to shim it the thing is it makes the hump more noticeable at least to me it did plus seeing the fretboard shim for me didn't help .

These guitars could have been easily fixed during production . The shim to me was not needed if they sized the neck mount block right . I will admit now I think about that due to normal inconsistentancies maybe the shim was there more for adjustment issues .

If so they should have made them out of plastic or graphite or something that could have been machined more precisely and in sizes .

Maybe the wood ones had sizes but they would be time consuming to custom fit .

I hope she makes you smile for years to come John enjoy 😊
 

richardp69

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Perhaps I would not have commented if you had said "No one who plays the same styles and genres I do has any business working at the 11th to 15th fret".

;-)

Actually, it would be far more accurate to say nobody who plays as lousy as I should be playing that far up the fingerboard.
 

adorshki

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For now, I think I will just play it and when the strings need changing, I'll have a new saddle made a few mm taller. I almost think someone made the saddle arc match the fretboard because the base side and treble side are the same height.
???
Arc of saddle is supposed to match fretboard radius, but maybe I'm misunderstanding.
Now I think I get it: if both ends of saddle are same height from top then yes bass side's probably too low.
Even though the arcs are matched the bass side still needs more clearance for string travel, thus he slightly higher action spec on that side.
I'm sure you know that Guild bridges are typically lower on treble side as well, although I'm not sure if that applied in those models.
I think Ray's got it with the shim issues, betcha it could be addressed easily that way:
Thinner shim, possibly even changing actual angle of "wedge": maybe needs to be slightly thinner on bass side of neck?
Assuming a saddle replacement doesn't fix it completely.
(Mikey's idea of a saddle shim might be a cheap way to test that)
I think my Walden with Cedar top, has become redundant.
Nice.
Hope things work out!
 

JohnW63

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Even though the arcs are matched the bass side still needs more clearance for string travel, thus he slightly higher action spec on that side.

This. I normally see a bit more saddle above the bridge on the low side, for no other reason that the string is thicker and vibrates larger.


Ray,
I need to find your old thread. If it's not much more than removing a shim, that would be great.
 

Rayk

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This. I normally see a bit more saddle above the bridge on the low side, for no other reason that the string is thicker and vibrates larger.


Ray,
I need to find your old thread. If it's not much more than removing a shim, that would be great.

I'm can't remember if I mentioned the shim much at that point .

Unfortunately you can't remove it for the love of ..... Ok update it's two separate shims on each side of the two graphite rails that run under the finger board from the heal about 3" long .

The shims are glued in between the top and Graphite mounting block . You could actually work them down but it would require diligence tricky cutting angles etc .
It would get messy lol .

The post is in the repair thread section should be easy enough to find.

Oh look here it is lol
Page three shows the shims

http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?188464-CV-1-Contemporary-fret-board-repair/page6
 

Rayk

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I thought I had pics of the sanding but I don't see them huh ..... We can get together to go over it it's pretty easy . In the mean time I try to look for the pics .
 

JohnW63

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I reread the post, but, I need some clarification one where things were sanded. I was initially thinking that all I would need to do is sand the bottom of the neck pocket , just a bit, and the wood would be able to sit just a little bit lower and remove the hump. This assumes that if I took the neck off, the fret board WOULD be flat. OK, in my case it really is not much, and I'm sure a slightly different shaped saddle would take care of the buzzing. I just like to know should I ever want to do anything in the future.
 

Rayk

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I reread the post, but, I need some clarification one where things were sanded. I was initially thinking that all I would need to do is sand the bottom of the neck pocket , just a bit, and the wood would be able to sit just a little bit lower and remove the hump. This assumes that if I took the neck off, the fret board WOULD be flat. OK, in my case it really is not much, and I'm sure a slightly different shaped saddle would take care of the buzzing. I just like to know should I ever want to do anything in the future.

Buzzing , I didn't hear that but I wasn't strumming it much if that's when the buzzing starts ? Most likely the result of the neck/fingerboard being to flat between saddle and nut ,neck angle .

What's the straight edge say ?

The top is humped err .... Yeah anyway use blue painters tape and tape along the edges of the fret board . Remove the neck .

Chose a good block of wood or aluminum that sized for the job not to big or to small . Good sqaure edges are my choice.

I ended up using 80 grit but try different grits to see what works best for how much material you need to remove.

Sand the hump down , I had to do both sides . Depending you might need to take some off the middle just depends .

Take the neck off look over it again and again make sure you know what your going to do before you start then have it .

Just do a little work then refit the neck and repeat .

Make sure your comfortable doing this , I don't want anyone getting mad at me more then normal . I obviously see things around me a lot differently then others .

If in doubt .....

Your welcome to text me pics as you go .
I'd certainly like to follow the work .
 

adorshki

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I just like to know should I ever want to do anything in the future.
Need I say that if it was me, I'd try a new saddle profile first, too?
:glee:
And FWIW I can recall somebody (I think Ralf SFIV1967) mentioning a long time ago that Guild (Fender) never even got around to publishing service manuals for adjusting the neckset on those.
Might have even been in the trainwreck neck thread, but I know for sure I've mentioned it as one of the weak points on those, in spite of the happy owners reports on tone quality.
So Ray's thread and input are likely some of the most valuable we've got about the Contemporaries.
I'd still like to try out a CV-1 or -2 (the F40 size) some day.
 

davismanLV

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Actually, it would be far more accurate to say nobody who plays as lousy as I should be playing that far up the fingerboard.
Richard, you're funny!! :encouragement: I don't consider myself a lousy player and I do have my own style that seems to suit the songs I play. But I'm not a super amazing guitar player. Maybe average would be the term? Some people think I play well. The rest seem to keep their mouths shut. But I'm at the 11th and 12th frets quite often. 13 through 15 less so, but occasionally. Keep in mind, I play in a bunch of different open tunings and most of those tend to utilize the whole fretboard a bit more.

Still, I laughed out loud at your original comment!!
 

JohnW63

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Ray,

If you fret the 6th string at 11-15th fret it buzzes. Once you've gone passed the slight fret board rise, the buzzing stops. No other string is effected. That's why I think the quick fix is to just get a new saddle and NOT have the 6th string quite so low.

Now, onto the sanding bit. ...You never said WHERE to sand when you say " Sand the hump down. " As I look at the very end of the finger board, I'm not sure that can move down much. If I sand bits that would need that to sit lower, I'm not sure it could go much more, unless I shave the back of the fingerboard too.

Perhaps I'll take some close up shots to show the slight hump. It really is small and nothing I would claim as a defect.
 

Rayk

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Ray,

If you fret the 6th string at 11-15th fret it buzzes. Once you've gone passed the slight fret board rise, the buzzing stops. No other string is effected. That's why I think the quick fix is to just get a new saddle and NOT have the 6th string quite so low.

Now, onto the sanding bit. ...You never said WHERE to sand when you say " Sand the hump down. " As I look at the very end of the finger board, I'm not sure that can move down much. If I sand bits that would need that to sit lower, I'm not sure it could go much more, unless I shave the back of the fingerboard too.

Perhaps I'll take some close up shots to show the slight hump. It really is small and nothing I would claim as a defect.

Yeah a pic would help maybe your seeing something I didn't .

The only place that I sanded was a few inches in from the tail block towards the sound hole . I had to do both sides .

I didn't get the whole hump removed as it wider then the fret board. I just did it enough to have the fretboard sit flush to the body .

On the buzzing , I have to back to see if you posted the string height .

But it makes sense the buzzing is there if there is a hump on that side as well because the fretboard is now forming a V shape .

Did you straight edge it yet lol I'm back off to read from the start if the thread lol

Anyway just to repeat the neck sets on these guitars was pretty much flat and or leaning a bit to the negitive .

The fret board should have a slight fall after 15th fret though that varies 3 degs I think is about right .
 

beecee

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What surprises the heck out of me is that he found Rayk to be less inquisitive than you...or perhaps he saw the error in his way after he was rude to you and gave Ray some leeway.

Ray can be...shall we say...very detail oriented.

In a good way my friend!!!!!
 

adorshki

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What surprises the heck out of me is that he found Rayk to be less inquisitive than you...or perhaps he saw the error in his way after he was rude to you and gave Ray some leeway.
In the heat of negotiation Ray may have reverted to his native tongue.
A lot of folks have fallen to that onslaught.
 
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