JF-30 Serial Number Question

JF-30

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Hey guys and gals. I got my first Guild this last New Years-sih. Its a JF-30 built in 5-87. Its serial number is JF300093. So I know 87 was the first year of these, so is mine the 93rd one built. Just curious. Love it. Its different than my Martins, certainly not bad, just different. I know nothing about Guilds. I played a JF-30 in Nashville while visiting last December and was on the prowl for a Maple acoustic. Then found one a guy had. I traded my Gibson LP Trad Pro II for it. Not sure who came out better in it end. What strings do you guys like on this guitar. I usually use Martin Lifespan 2.0.
 

bobouz

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Welcome FZ! Lots of knowledge & good folks here, but you do risk the possibility of getting addicted to Guilds if you hang around for long.

Will sound crazy to some, but I use D’Addario PB extra lights on mine. I fingerpick with a light touch & still get a ton of tone out of that big box. Great guitars, for sure.
 

JF-30

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I have Mapes strings on it now. I have D'Addario's EXP 80/20 and PB's at home and I am goin to put them on my Guild and Martin's (D-28. D-18 and J12-16GT) at my next string change.
 

JF-30

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Hey bobouz. I guess us guitar guys are everywhere.
 

Cougar

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...I got my first Guild this last New Years....

Welcome to the Guild club, and the boards, FZ! Someone will be along to decode that serial number for you. Guild numbering is just too complicated for me! You got one nice jumbo, though! Congrats!
 

adorshki

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Hey guys and gals. I got my first Guild this last New Years-sih. Its a JF-30 built in 5-87. Its serial number is JF300093. So I know 87 was the first year of these, so is mine the 93rd one built.
Welcome aboard!
Unless I'm having a major brain fart (an increasingly common occurrence these days); yes, that's #93, that system was pretty easy to decode even though the records from that period of mid-to-late '80's are a mess.

What strings do you guys like on this guitar.
I used to advocate for using what Guild strung 'em with and at that time it would've been D'Addario pb , probably lights (!2-53) but possibly mediums 13-56.
D'Addario seems to get the most votes from happy users whenever that question comes up.
In an about-face I started experimenting with my own maple bodied baby recently, digging into the dynamics of set tension vs design tension of the top, and tone qualities of silk and steel vs pb.
the only caveat I'll give anybody these days is: If you want to prolong the life of your neckset (and maybe the bridge glue) for as long as possible, I wouldn't string an '80's Guild with anything heavier than D'Addario EJ-16 pb lights, total set tension there is 160lbs:
http://www.daddario.com/DADProductF...&familyid=9&productname=Phosphor_Bronze_Wound
We have seen some early '80's dreads that were shipped with mediums, but I have yet to see anything like a string spec chart for Guilds from that era, only a stamp on owner's handbooks of individual pieces showing what they came with..

I usually use Martin Lifespan 2.0.
Check tension on Martin's website, I seem to recall they run a little higher than similar gauge D'Addario.
I wouldn't worry about 5 or 10 lbs higher though.
 
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JF-30

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On all my acoustics except the 12er, I use what most companies call Custom Light 11 - 52. On the 12er, it gets 11 - 47.
 

adorshki

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On all my acoustics except the 12er, I use what most companies call Custom Light 11 - 52. On the 12er, it gets 11 - 47.
Ahhh! Somebody who gets that thicker is not always better!
(And what, pray tell, are the others?)
And:
OH boy I see a Guild 12-er in your future.
:glee:
Not knowing how much digging you've done here, I'll just toss out that Guild introduced a companion 12-string along with the JF30, called, surprisingly enough, the JF30-12.
In the 'late '90's at least, all their 12-ers came with .010-.047's, D'A EJ38's
Actually used their Custom Lights on my F65ce for a while because the extra lights (also coincidentally .010-.047) it was spec'd for were just too darned thin, literally shredded my fingernails when playing bareback.
 
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JF-30

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My other acoustics are 2001 Martin J12-16GT, 2011 Martin D-28, and a 2014 Martin D-18 (I love my 28 but I would run in the house if it was on fire to save this guitar once the wife and dogs are out). I am looking for my next acoustic. I have rules though. Usually...usually, I buy acoustics new. All the current ones except the Guild were bought new. My next rule is not negotiable... I only buy American made guitars. I don't care how great you say your $400 Chinese or Korean model is compared to the more expensive $2000+ American one. Tell me that when your binding starts coming off, ect, ect. My electrical stuff is a 2009 Gibson BB King Lucille Signature Model. Mine was made before "The Raid" and has an ebony fretboard not richlite. Also a 1995 Fender Am. Std J Bass. Every guitar player needs a bass. I am currently thinking about a Martin D-35. I do not think I will get another 12 string. One for me is enough. I pretty much have all the major tone woods covered. Would love a Koa guitar, but they are pricey. I had a Walnut Gibson J-15 and I did not like it at all. People go Lady Ga Ga for them, but for the $ Martin's D-15 I think is the best value out there for USA made guitar around $1500. I would love an all Hog guitar again. I would buy a Martin D-15 in a minute. I'm open to suggestions and know nothing about Guilds America made acoustics.
 

adorshki

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I am looking for my next acoustic. I have rules though. Usually...usually, I buy acoustics new. All the current ones except the Guild were bought new. My next rule is not negotiable... I only buy American made guitars.
Funny I kind of sensed a sympatico just based on your string choices, but I too always wanted to buy new (see my sig); largely for the confidence of knowing I had a piece with no hidden damage and the security of a warranty just in case.
I came to Guild after an MIK Fender acoustic was stolen out of my car in late '96.
It was a nice guitar but I too decided at that time that I wanted a quality American built piece for a couple of reasons:
A: It's the quintessential American instrument, the flattop steel string was invented here, and
B: It would retain its value and be worth refretting (or repairing )when the time came.
I was sick of a parade of decent enough guitars but being faced with the issue that it was almost as cheap to buy a new guitar as to re-fret an existing one, and that offended my sensibilities.
Sticker shock was pretty severe, though, until my best buddy (who coincidentally bought a new first-year JF30-12 himself, finally fulfilling his aspiration to someday own a Guild 12-string) told me:
"Y'oughtta check out Guild, Fender just bought 'em."
And contrary to internet myth, Fender did NOT "wreck 'em".
Quite the opposite.
And yes while there was some initial resentment towards Fender's introduction of MIC Guilds (in late '03), over time most members here seem to have accepted that they are a very good value for what they are, and have helped the brand itself survive, particularly during the dark years of the great recession.
But given a choice and an unlimited budget I'll buy new and American every time.
My primary concern right now is that Guild doesn't actually offer my "pipe dream" guitar, so I'm biding my time and hoping someday they'll see fit to re-issue a genuine grand auditorium body that was originally the archback maple bodied F40.
The single most versatile body shape in their history.
But I do love my mahogany dreadnoughts for tone.
And love Crosby's Martin tone on If I Could Only Remember My Name
:friendly_wink:
I would buy a Martin D-15 in a minute. I'm open to suggestions and know nothing about Guilds America made acoustics.
Guild's current D20 model is a flatback all-hog dreadnought:
https://guildguitars.com/guitars/acoustic-guitars/guild-usa/
This was the original D25 formula from '68, which morphed into an all-hog archback for a couple of years ca '72-'74 then morphed into a spruce-topped 'hog bodied archback which lasted for about 24 yeasr and is what most folks think of when they mention a Guild D25.
The problem with current Guild production is that it's so low it's extremely hard to get your hands on one on the wall in a music store.
On the plus side hard-core Guild fans are giving 'em high marks for sound and build quality, and this crowd's hard to please and skeptical after seeing Fender march production through 3 different plants over 12 years before finally selling 'em off in '14 to new owners Cordoba Music Group, who built a brand new plant for 'em in Oxnard CA under the guidance of Ren Ferguson of Gibson fame.
That's all I got time for now, but toss out some other details on you wish list and plenty of guys'll offer suggestions.
:friendly_wink:
 

JF-30

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I just saw a couple used Guild D-15's for same for around $600. American Made. That seems cheap to me even used, Wonder if there are issues.
 

adorshki

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I just saw a couple used Guild D-15's for same for around $600. American Made. That seems cheap to me even used, Wonder if there are issues.

D-15's (and D16's and '17's )were "reissues" of the all-hog archback D25.
Produced during late '80's to very early '90's when George Gruhn and Kim Walker had strong impact on build "style": they were lightening up again after the period that earned 'em their "built like a tank" reputation.
Guilds are typically under-valued on the used market, they're only just starting to get some respect.
Any of the usual things to check for would apply, check neck angle, braces, fret wear, general overall condition.
If $600 included a case for good condition I'd call that a pretty fair price, but mainly wanted you to be aware that it's an archback.
AS far as I can recall they only made an all-hog flatback dread twice, the original D25 and the Corona (Yes Fender's Corona)era D25 of '02 to '03 or early '04.
The D25 was one of the first models to be replaced with an import, there hasn't been a US-built arched-back dreadnought since then.
In fact seeing that spring '04 price list featuring the new Chinese built Guild Acoustic Design line is what prompted me to go buy my Richie Havens Signature model D40: spruce-topped flatback dreadnought.
The guitar that opened Woodstock.
That D40 needed a long time to open up but it taught me the difference between archbacks and flatbacks, subtle but real.
Archbacks create a diffused sound, they emphasize sustain and overtones, and focus the volume through the soundhole in a parabolic effect, great for making lush sounding chords.
But the '40 is now noticeably more focused and punchier than the '25, would probably have better cutting power in a bluegrass setting and live up to its original "Bluegrass Jubilee" name.
I'd expect similar differences to be at play between an archback and a flatback with 'hog tops as well, which only ever happened in D25's, and a couple of parlor sized models (M20 and M30, Guild's take on OO's and OM's ).
 
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adorshki

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Here is the one. It has a case. I just sold a Tele the other day for $600 if this is a good deal I will buy it tonight.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Guild/Vintage-1983-D15-Acoustic-Guitar.gc

All I can tell you is that GC's notorious around here for bad pics and poor definitions of "good" condition, BUT, if you're close and can easily go inspect it in hand, or are willing to get it shipped and take advantage of their very flexible return policy, then yes, it's worth checking out.
Most critical thing I'd want to know on a piece that old is if the neck's close to needing a reset; saddle height means nothing without reference to the neck angle:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html

Gotta run!
 

bobouz

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In my experience, a guitar listed as "good" by GC can often be pretty thrashed. I've purchased many used instruments from them, but only if it's listed as "excellent" or "great." That said, there is no consistency in their listings from store to store, so you truly can end up with almost anything.

Best bet is to create a list with all your pertinent questions from headstock to endpin, and call the store for an in-hand assessment. The last guitar I purchased from them in this manner was a Gibson CJ-165ec. Condition was listed as "great." When it arrived, it was actually near-mint.
 

JF-30

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I called and talked to a guy at the store. He said the neck is straight and will not need a reset. I can also return it to any GC in 45 if I am not happy. I'll probably just let it sit at GC.
 

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Thread veer....

....The last guitar I purchased from them in this manner was a Gibson CJ-165ec....

Hey Bob, how do you like that "compact jumbo"? I've sort of gassed over that model for years, but was basically waylaid by Guild jumbo 6- and 12-strings. Your thoughts on the model would be appreciated!
 

adorshki

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I called and talked to a guy at the store. He said the neck is straight and will not need a reset. I can also return it to any GC in 45 if I am not happy. I'll probably just let it sit at GC.
Was in a hurry yesterday, but was thinking about this.
Actually thought it might have been dated wrong, didn't remember they made D15's that early, but in fact s/n records confirm it:
http://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/history_of_your_guild.pdf
While we know there's a lot of errors in the records, that particular one looks pretty cut and dried that it's a safe bet '83 was first year.
For some reason I had it in my head they were '86 or '87 first year.
Point is that '83 precedes the Gruhn/Walker era I mentioned earlier and I suspect it'd be in the "built like a tank" build style..not that it seemed to have a negative effect on tone.
They always seemed to get that equal presence across all strings tone that was their hallmark no matter what.
But still, given a choice I'd look for the later version in hope it may have benefited from whatever tweaks Gruhn may have introduced by that time, his influence did trickle down to all the models by the late '80's.
Gruhn was approached by Guild founder's son Mark Dronge to revamp the line with 3 new dreadnought and F40 body designs in '84( More background here:https://www.vintageguitar.com/3275/1985-guild-nightbird-prototype/), the fruits of which can be seen in this '86 price list:

http://www.westerlyguildguitars.com/files/86PL2.jpg

Note you can see the D15/16/17 in there too as the "Mahogany Rush" series (anybody remember Frank Marino? :smile:) and it reminded me that D15's were satin finished, if you wanted gloss you moved up to the D16.
Final note, I don't trust a guy at GC to know if a guitar's due for a reset unless he knows how to do the alignment check with a straightedge that Frank Ford describes.
A straight neck is a different issue from a bad neck angle, and FWIW reports of twisting on Guild necks are very rare here.
Maybe because of how they acquired and dried their wood:
http://www.westerlyguildguitars.com/articles/woodselection.pdf
That Westerly Guild Guitars website is a nice overview of the models, not complete, and specs might have been different in different years for a given model, but it's a real nice place to start looking at their line-ups over the years.
Good luck in the hunt!
 
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