IF Oxnard Built An F47, Would You Come?

adorshki

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Some of you may be familiar with my epiphany about the importance of Guild's "Grand Auditorium" body in the brand heritage, after my realization that my F40-derived F65ce was the most comfortable-to-play guitar I own, even with the narrow 1-5/8" nut and 25-5/8" scale.
The basic F40 outline (16" lower bout "F" body, also known as "Grand Auditorium" in Taylor-speak) has yielded more variations on a theme in terms of body and top wood combinations, depth, scale lengths, and as the basis of an ongoing evolution of a cutaway electric line than any other body in the flat-top line.
There may be just a few more dreadnought models but there's a lot more repetition of the traditional hog/maple/rosewood-with-sitka top combinations that really vary more by "bling" than variety of back styles or scale lengths.
The importance of that F40 heritage has been my primary gripe about Oxnard's F40:
It's not even a Grand Auditorium body, it's a 17" lower bout F-body and is even based on the original F48 by their own admission!
So I'm willing to cut 'em some slack on that if they'll revive what became the F40's first variant: the F47, which boiled down to an F40 outline with a flat 'hog back instead of arched maple.
Over the years the F47 went through its own metamorphoses, yielding once again to the F40, and then to the Gruhn-designed F42/44/F46's.
Read between those lines: When it was time to revamp the line where did they start? With dreadnoughts and F40's.
Ultimately those Gruhn designs evolved pretty quickly into the GF series and that, in my opinion, was the golden age of Guild's Grand Auditorium offerings: In the GF's all 3 back woods were available as well as both flat and arched backs, and concurrently we saw the introduction of a cutaway electric line with an alternative scale length in the F45ce.
1989 F45ce:
psq2jtrtupdz2i4o6kkg.jpg

Yeah that's what my F65ce looks like.
What's not to like?
Eventually we saw Westerly offer F47ce's in 'hog, maple, and rosewood bodies, and F47's survived even into New Hartford, by which time they were calling the original F47 formula (flat-back 'hog body) the F40.
2001 F47rce:
yo0tkzjgioa40fzp5gry.jpg

2014 F40:
v3wthrlcq7utahfj6gl2.jpg


So maybe that threw Oxnard off and sent 'em down the wrong tracks.
IN the meantime I'd been realizing my pipe dream guitar would be virtually identical to the original F45ce with one little exception I've only ever seen offered on the first generation of F65ce's, if I can trust the specs I've seen over the years:
I'd like a 24-3/4" scale with a 1-11/16 nut. (All the reports I've seen on F45ce's show the 1-5/8 nut on that special 24-fret/double-octave neck)
I'm getting old and I think that's what my hands want now, and I think it'll also sound mellower than my F65ce with its arched maple back.
F45ce was originally arched maple back but I'm flexible there, too.
I'm thinking flatback 'hog or rosewood, only because I need to get some rosewood into my collection, but I've discovered the flatback 'hog sound from my D40 continues to grow on me, and voila, all we really need is a revived F47.
So how about it Oxnard, how about digging out and dusting off those old 16" body bucks and offering some special order options like a short scale with 1-11/6 nut.
I couldn't even buy one used if I wanted to, and I actually tried a Taylor GA a couple of weeks ago that just didn't do it for me.
What say ye, merry gentlemen, should Guild revive the F47 in all its body woods and return to leadership of the Grand Auditorium niche?
If they did would you try one, maybe even buy one?
Remember, they monitor the action here so make your vote count.
Early and often.
:tranquillity:
 
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gjmalcyon

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After spending most of the past 6 months cased, my Tacoma F-47R has been out of the case and on the guitar stand next to my desk for most of the past week. And it has been sounding better and better and better. To my ear it is the best sounding rosewood guitar in the herd, even better than the Orpheum.

bDF4SWHl.jpg
 

tommym

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IF Oxnard Built An F47, Would You Come?

Depends....

Any "new build" guitar (from any manufacturer) with a 1 11/16" nut and 2 1/8" sting spacing is a no go for me. That's way I am truly blessed to have acquired my NH Guild F30 Standard and NH F30R Standard with the wider nut and string spacing. That kept me from leaving the Guild family for another manufacturer.

Getting back to the 16" lower bout....

For me, my old F44 was the always the queen of my Guild collection, and is the only guitar I truly miss. My friend had a F46 that I was allowed to use, but he refused to sell it to me at any price, as that was his queen of his Guild guitar collection. Aesthetically, I always felt that the GF / GV collection was a downgrade to the F44 / F46 line of guitars, so I never warm up to those guitars. No doubt there were many fine guitars produced in the GF / GV line of guitars.

Tommy
 

chazmo

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. . .
What say ye, merry gentlemen, should Guild revive the F47 in all its body woods and return to leadership of the Grand Auditorium niche?
If they did would you try one, maybe even buy one?
Remember, they monitor the action here so make your vote count.
I'm not sure why you think Oxnard is monitoring posts here, Al. I kinda' doubt it. In any case, I want to clarify to everyone here that LTG is not affiliated with CMG and they have no say in what gets posted here. I very much hope that this site maintains its independence.

Did you intend to create this thread as a poll, Al? That's an option, and might've served better here. I might be able to turn this into a poll if you want it that way, just let me know through PM what you want. I'm not sure though.

Anyway, the answer from me is no. The re-introduction of the F-50R and F-50 (under new names, I know) provides the appeal to me. The truth is that, post-divorce, I can't afford any of these and wouldn't sell my axes to get them.

Finally, I really *do* hope they bring this model back though. I acknowledge its appeal and I hope to see it return someday.
 

F312

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... with a new model number of course.

Ralph
 

adorshki

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I'm not sure why you think Oxnard is monitoring posts here, Al. I kinda' doubt it. In any case, I want to clarify to everyone here that LTG is not affiliated with CMG and they have no say in what gets posted here. I very much hope that this site maintains its independence.
That's a really good point but I'm absolutely positive I've seen reference to the fact that they do "look in" here, perhaps "monitoring" wasn't the right word because it implies an active continuous process, and I agree don't think they watch that intensively.
More than anything else the remark was just supposed to be a set-up for the "Vote early and Vote often" humor chestnut.
As for actively participating, no, at least not "officially" (who knows if they may have members here who simply don't disclose an affiliation with CMG for entirely ethical reasons,) and at least partly for exactly the reasons you mention.
Did you intend to create this thread as a poll, Al? That's an option, and might've served better here.
Nope, didn't want a dry old poll, wanted actual owner/prospective owner feedback like seen so far.
And btw, @ Tommy: I only want to be able to special order the oddball scale length/nut combo, I get why 25-5/8" is preferred in the niche.

Anyway, the answer from me is no. The re-introduction of the F-50R and F-50 (under new names, I know) provides the appeal to me. The truth is that, post-divorce, I can't afford any of these and wouldn't sell my axes to get them.
Finally, I really *do* hope they bring this model back though. I acknowledge its appeal and I hope to see it return someday.

'AT's what I'm lookin' for!
:smile-new:

... with a new model number of course.

Ralph
BAD Ralph, Bad Bad Ralph!!
With my luck they'll call it an F30.
Now that I think about it I'd live with it and let the F30 lovers start to gripe, as long as it was a GA body!
:glee:
 
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txbumper57

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I love my early 2000's F47BRZ that Chris Fleming made in the Corona Custom Shop but it is of the Mini Jumbo 16" body style like the late Westerly models as opposed to the Tacoma and New Hartford Body Shape. I tried several New Hartford and one Tacoma F47 models in tone woods of Maple, Rosewood, and the GSR Koa version. They sounded good but just didn't do it for me. The Tacoma and NH versions are almost like a cross between a Jumbo and a Dread and that was noticeable in the tone aspects as you could hear characteristics of both when you play them but the overall impression was they were a bit thin sounding to me. Not that they aren't a cool guitar but personally they just didn't have enough in the tank for my tastes. Just an opinion as always.

I would have to say I wouldn't be that interested in a New F47 but.......

if we are talking about bringing back a F-312 Model then I might have to take a chance on an Oxnard made Guild.:eagerness:

TX
 

bobouz

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Yes Al, your specs mirror my ideal. I do have the '73 F-30R and '74 F-40, which I dearly love for their size, shape, and neck carve in particular - however, they lack the icing on the cake - a short-scale!

So currently I must turn to my Gibsons for 24.75" perfection, but I'd love to see it in a Guild. Of course, I can pick up the '97 Starfire or the '14 A-150b to get there in a Guild, but those are horses of a different color.
 

adorshki

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if we are talking about bringing back a F-312 Model then I might have to take a chance on an Oxnard made Guild.:eagerness:

TX
Anything derived from the "one true F40".
:glee:
You reminded me that the 16" F-body also yielded another landmark for Guild: their first 12-strings.
And we all know how that wound up.
:friendly_wink:
 
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Rayk

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Yeah they should do it for you for sure ! :) and also include the Grand auditorium F40 for me LOL
 

F312

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That's a really good point but I'm absolutely positive I've seen reference to the fact that they do "look in" here, perhaps "monitoring" wasn't the right word because it implies an active continuous process, and I agree don't think they watch that intensively.
More than anything else the remark was just supposed to be a set-up for the "Vote early and Vote often" humor chestnut.
As for actively participating, no, at least not "officially" (who knows if they may have members here who simply don't disclose an affiliation with CMG for entirely ethical reasons,) and at least partly for exactly the reasons you mention.

Nope, didn't want a dry old poll, wanted actual owner/prospective owner feedback like seen so far.
And btw, @ Tommy: I only want to be able to special order the oddball scale length/nut combo, I get why 25-5/8" is preferred in the niche.



'AT's what I'm lookin' for!
:smile-new:


BAD Ralph, Bad Bad Ralph!!
With my luck they'll call it an F30.
Now that I think about it I'd live with it and let the F30 lovers start to gripe, as long as it was a GA body!
:glee:

I'm only trying to contribute. BTW is that your guitar in #1? Good heavens.

Ralph
 
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Rayk

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Al how much would you pay for said guitar brand new ? I know you love Guild but would have to be a Guild ?
 

fronobulax

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I'm not sure why you think Oxnard is monitoring posts here, Al.

Within a a year, maybe two, after the sale, an LTG poster met some CMG people at a trade show, told them about LTG (which was news to them) and put them in contact with me. I had several email conversations about the relationship between LTG and CMG. Maintaining LTG's independence was key but we did kick around ideas like a thread where only CMG could post or a place where questions for CMG would be posted and answered. Ultimately we agreed that CMG's goals could best be met on other social media platforms (yes I am stretching things to use that term about LTG but in context LTG was competing with Facebook, Twitter and Instagram) so there was no reason to change LTG's status quo. Since there was no action and I considered the discussions confidential at the time, I probably did not make a big deal about it in the Mod Lounge. CMG did say that they would monitor LTG occasionally although no one from CMG would post. The "no post" decision was based upon corporate policies and liability - they wanted to control their online presence and posts they made on LTG were one more thing to monitor for internal compliance. They also did not want someone to say something on LTG that implicitly committed CMG to any course of action. I made vague allusions to CMG paying attention to LMG in public my posts in a "trust me because I can't tell you" kind of sense.

It has been years since I have had contact with CMG but there are a couple anecdotes about someone who had a customer service issue, waited a couple weeks, complained here and had it resolved within 24 hours. That may have been coincidence but it supports the hypothesis that They Are Watching. There are also stories about someone having a question/problem, contacting CMG and including material from LTG in their email.

My take on why nothing happened from the CMG side is that they make money selling new instruments and those buyers were who they wanted to reach with their online activities. LTG was perceived (or perhaps they just accepted my opinion) as a site populated by owners, not buyers of new instruments. The acknowledged LTG's ability to shape opinion on the brand and on the new offerings but with less than 10,000 registered users (and maybe 1,000 active ones) LTG was not the best bang for their social media buck.
 
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fronobulax

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I am reminded of a time in the NH years when Guild actually said they would make an LTG model. We just had to agree on a set of specs (that could be produced) and pre-order, with deposit, at least 10 (or maybe it was 15). Has anyone see the LTG Guild? Me neither. We could not agree on the specs and every time we got close the expected price, circa $2000 caused people to back off.
 

adorshki

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I'm only trying to contribute. BTW is that your guitar in #1? Good heavens.Ralph
No, it's a random F45ce from the net as noted above the pic, but it happens to have the same outline and back wood as F65ce's and my back is just as purty as that one, although that one is either Amber finish or else just really oranged out in the pic.
I've always said mine looks like the one on Westyerlyguildguitars.com:
f65ce-5.JPG

except my striping's better aligned horizontally, and that F45ce's back is that way.
And yeah it really is that stripey.
You can see/hear mine in action here (well, the front, anyway, and for another couple of weeks before new vids go up):
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?198628-Maple-Does-the-Angle-Affect-the-Jangle

Al how much would you pay for said guitar brand new ?
I paid $1700 out the door ($2295 list in '01) for the F65ce as a discontinued NOS with warranty, which might still be available to me; haven't pursued it because I'd have to ship to take advantage, and that's not gonna happen unless I've got a backup to use. IF I decide to take the risk.
So, $2800.00 post retirement dollars plus tax and don't require an "e" or exotic bling, just want a REAL F40 body.
I know you love Guild but would have to be a Guild ?
I loved RX-7's too and the only reason I don't still have one is that they became unavailable in a condition I'd spend money on, and because I know how hard certain parts are to find.
So, since this is a pipedream, I see no reason to compromise on another maker, besides which, as mentioned I tried a Taylor GA in Guitar Showcase a couple of weeks ago, it left me flat.
Right on display wall it needed a set-up, nut looked synthetic (black) and something about the bridge struck me that way too.
I would have tried a couple of others just to give 'em a fair chance but 2 guys were blasting out the acoustic room with new Acoustasonic Teles.
But that's another story.
 
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Rayk

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No, it's a random F54ce from the net as noted above the pic, but it happens to have the same outline and back wood as F65ce's and my back is just as purty as that one, although that one is either Amber finish or else just really oranged out in the pic.
I've always said mine looks like the one on Westyerlyguildguitars.com:
f65ce-5.JPG

except the grain's better aligned horizontally, and that F45ce's back is that way.
And yeah it really is that stripey.
You can see/hear mine in action here (well, the front, anyway, and for another couple of weeks before new vids go up):
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?198628-Maple-Does-the-Angle-Affect-the-Jangle


I paid $1700 out the door ($2295 list in '01) for the F65ce as a discontinued NOS with warranty, which might still be available to me; haven't pursued it because I'd have to ship to take advantage, and that's not gonna happen unless I've got a backup to use. IF I decide to take the risk.
So, $2800.00 post retirement dollars plus tax and don't require an "e" or exotic bling, just want a REAL F40 body.

I loved RX-7's too and the only reason I don't still have one is that they became unavailable in a condition I'd spend money on, and because I know how hard certain parts are to find.
So, since this is a pipedream, I see no reason to compromise on another maker, besides which, as mentioned I tried a Taylor GA in Guitar Showcase a couple of weeks ago, it left me flat.
Right on display wall it needed a set-up, nut looked synthetic (black) and something about the bridge struck me that way too.
I would have tried a couple of others just to give 'em a fair chance but 2 guys were blasting out the acoustic room with new Acoustasonic Teles.
But that's another story.

I was thinking custom build .
 

adorshki

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I am reminded of a time in the NH years when Guild actually said they would make an LTG model. We just had to agree on a set of specs (that could be produced) and pre-order, with deposit, at least 10 (or maybe it was 15).
It was 20, just like the GSR's, because they had to make at least that many of any given piece to justify cost of production.
To get what I want all they have to do is offer a standard model based on a real GA body.
Since F40 model number is currently being used for something else, F47 would be a nice logical number for 'em to use, and has heritage with Guild just like D55 or M20.
I can wait for 'em to start offering special order capability for details (like shortscale) that are available in production even if not on the model I want to special order it on.
Just like you could do in Westerly back in the day, or at the Nashville Custom Shop, or even as New Hartford was close to offering, IIRC.
With New Hartford it had to do with having in-house repair capability which they achieved shortly before the sale IIRC, and demonstrated by the fact that they were offering some "special builds" like the DD models, "Based on the F47", btw.
Has anyone see the LTG Guild? Me neither. We could not agree on the specs and every time we got close the expected price, circa $2000 caused people to back off.
Right, another reason I just want to be able to special order some non-standard specs on a standard model, unless they actually see the wisdom of a GA body with a shortscale, like Gibson offers....
They may benefit from realizing that in the past it was Guild's single most flexible platform.
:tranquillity:
 
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