Vintage Guitars with Non-Original Cases

fronobulax

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An original case is a big plus, and it says someone cared about it enough not to lose the case. Pretty rare - but not impossible - to find a really mint guitar without a case.

You are, as always, entitled to your own opinion, but I do bristle a little bit when you equate the presence/absence of an original case to "caring". In Ye Olden Days when many of today's vintage instruments were new, a case was often an extra cost accessory. So there was often no case purchased to lose. Some of my contemporaries chose to spend their budget on a good instrument and then they improvised padded bags. They babied the instruments and took good care of them. There were also situations where a gig bag was offered as choice for an "original" case so there was no HSC to lose.

I agree that when assessing the condition of a vintage instrument in today's market the presence of an OHSC is reassuring. But almost anything about condition that might be presumed from years in an OHSC can also be determined by inspection if it matters enough to do so.
 

Guildedagain

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Comment wasn't made to make anyone bristle. I've been following vintage guitars since they were "used"... and affordable. A lot of the cheap ones I picked had no case or the wrong case, most of the better ones always had a case, and preferable "the" original case. I can't imagine someone buying a Les Paul or a D28 and opting out of the case. The first Tele cases cost $40 when the guitar was $150, cases have always been expensive investments to keep your baby safe.

In this day and age, it is actually rare when a guitar still has it's original case, because of wear.

I've often bought a vintage guitar in the wrong case, which may actually be better for shipping anyway, and then find the right case on eBay later.

I have bought near mint vintage guitars that had no case before, not even sure how this works. Guitars are magnets for bumps and bruises, navigating point A to point B without hitting something is usually an exercise in hyper vigilance...

The local chain of pawnshops here separated the guitars from the cases for years, to "use the case to sweeten the deal" at the time of a would be sale, except with turnover, no one knew this and they'd routinely sell the guitars without their cases, sometimes ending up with a whole backroom full of cases for guitars that are sold.

I found this out years ago when I bought a Strat, the sales clerk couldn't find the case, so he let me go through a room full of cases until I found it, and in the meantime unearthed all of these rare cases that went fo Flying V's and other weird guitars where only that case fits. By the time I found the Strat case, there was a giant pile of cases that didn't go to anything and he sold me the whole lot for a song. I had an old SAAB 900 3dr (about as much room as a 1/2 ton truck inside) and I filled it to the gills with cases, $50 I think it was. Took me about three years to sell them all, and each time, I reunited a rare guitar with the correct case.

Some people, like me, get just as obsessed about finding the right case as any other part of GASsing. The most expensive cases, for the most expensive guitars, like a Sunburst Flametop, can hit upwards of $3000 for a mint 5 latch "Cali girl" case.

The guitar and case are a pair, a package. And then there's the case candy. I sold the correct strap for a '59 burst for $500. I got it for free in the case of a Lyle that was worth about $75.

Some guys sell the original case to buy a new clean smelling SKB case.

Some guys sell the SKB and find the original case.

I'm that guy.
 
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SFIV1967

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I also like the guitars in an original case, as I also see it as a bundle that belongs/-ed together. For some the value goes up big time with the original case. I am like Guildedagain in that case. But in the case of Guild for decades a case was not included! A case was an option you could choose from in the Guild catalog/pricelist and there were several options. So some people bought the deluxe case, others just a no-name gig bag. That explains that so many have no OHSC. I'd say the more valuable instruments come in the better cases, a lower value guitar probably in a gig bag or anykind of case. And travelling musicians have totally other reuqirements compared to a couch player and collector.
My Custom Shop 50ies Telecaster for instance came in the standard rectangle Fender case. First thing I did was to search for a Thermometer case. It looks so much better when it is in that small vintage style Thermometer case at home. But I would not travel with that case...
Ralf
 

Walter Broes

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If I could afford it, I'd have all my guitars in Calton cases. Original case is a cool thing to have, but they can be smelly and/or worn out, or not great to be begin with.
 

tommym

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Though I much prefer an original hard shell case, a non original case wouldn't stop me from buying a guitar if it was on my bucket list. I have had custom guitar cases made in the past, and they were all expensive. With some body shapes / sizes there are no generic replacement cases available.

Tommy
 

Grassdog

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Would I like to have the original (assuming it's a good one that sufficiently protects the guitar), sure. But it's way way down on the list of things I consider in buying a guitar. I've swapped out several original cases because they didn't hold up well or were just plain crap. The guitar and how you communicate with it is what's important here. While people might be inclined to throw tips in your case (if you're so inclined to leave it open during a gig) they most certainly will not if you don't play the guitar well.
 

davismanLV

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I have offered money to guys playing to turn it down. When you're in a local bar and pub and you've been catching up with old friends or creating new ones and some guy starts blasting music, I let them know that I came here to socialize with friends and not to listen to them at a high volume. If they turn it down to an acceptable level I give 'em money. If not then my whole entourage has to pick up all our $hit, close out the tab, and find a new venue. Sometimes the players understand this, some of them don't. Ricardo at Bandito down the street always gets money from us because he's professional, background, and he'll even wander the restaurant and come over and have a conversation (briefly with us) while he's playing because he's wireless and his volume is always perfect.

Off topic and not about cases but I just thought I'd throw that out there. Besides, when did "off-topic" ever stop us??
 

adorshki

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By the time I found the Strat case, there was a giant pile of cases that didn't go to anything and he sold me the whole lot for a song. I had an old SAAB 900 3dr (about as much room as a 1/2 ton truck inside) and I filled it to the gills with cases, $50 I think it was. Took me about three years to sell them all, and each time, I reunited a rare guitar with the correct case.

Some people, like me, get just as obsessed about finding the right case as any other part of GASsing. The most expensive cases, for the most expensive guitars, like a Sunburst Flametop, can hit upwards of $3000 for a mint 5 latch "Cali girl" case.

Some guys sell the original case to buy a new clean smelling SKB case.
Some guys sell the SKB and find the original case.
I'm that guy.

I love that story.
Just corroborates my own answer:
What's your opinion on vintage guitars with non-original cases? The collector in me likes to see all-original, but as an example, I have a '66 Starfire III that's in great condition but it's in one of the terrible (IMO) almost chipboard cases that were the cheap option of the day if you didn't want to pay for a real hardshell case.

To properly protect the guitar, I'm tempted to buy a Newark Street TKL case that fits it perfectly, but then I'll have an extra useless case. Also, I hate the idea of separating the case from the guitar when they've been together for over 50 years. What say you?
Primary over-riding goal: Protect the guitar.
But keep that old case for exactly the reasons you mention.
There's another guy like you out there that'll see the value in it someday. (As some mentioned already, I do too.)
Maybe Grot could store it for you until it's time for the kids to liquidate your estate.
:tongue-new:
 

walrus

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My local shop has a wall full of cases with no guitars. A few years ago, I put a rectangular Gibson electric case on consignment there, and it sold within a few weeks. So someone was definitely looking for it...

walrus
 

fronobulax

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I can't imagine someone buying a Les Paul or a D28 and opting out of the case.

You can't imagine it. I witnessed it several times although I won't claim specific models were involved. Specifically $200-$300 street price, in the '70's, purchased new with no case. Some folks could not afford $50 more. Some folks had one case and used it for whatever guitar was leaving their bedroom. I bought my '67 used but it came in a homemade gig bag.
 

adorshki

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Some folks could not afford $50 more.
Yep, $40.00 or even $50.00 was pretty hefty chunk of change when I was a kid in '71.
In fact an online inflation calculator says you need 249 2019 dollars to equal the buying power of 40 1971 dollars .
Yeah, that's probably make me check for "economical options".
Gotta admit when I bought my D25, the fact that the case was included was a selling point to me, and at the time didn't realize it hadn't been Guild's S.O.P. all along.
I read between the lines thinking: "They're telling the buyer this thing comes with protection for the investment".
It's probably better for both parties: The buyer gets an upgrade without stressing out over the broken-out cost, and the maker gets a little more profit by selling a package instead of a la carte and risking loss of any sale of a case.
I'm reminded of Tom's (Davisman) irritation with the GC Manager who quoted him a low price on their Breedlove special edition floor model and then weaseled out and said the case wasn't included when they couldn't find it, although it was supposed to be part of the total guitar package.
It cost them a sale.
 

Grassdog

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Do any of us really know for sure (unless it's us that are the original owners) that it's the original case with the guitar? Guitar collectors track down "period correct" cases all the time. Who's to say these guitars weren't purchased new without cases and somewhere down the road someone in the line of owners found and matched it up with a period correct case?
 

Stuball48

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After looking at all the signatures on these post, I humbly admit--if given a choice of any guitar listed on any of these signatures, I wouldn't care if it's case was a "toesack" (burlap bag).
 

SFIV1967

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Who's to say these guitars weren't purchased new without cases and somewhere down the road someone in the line of owners found and matched it up with a period correct case?
Oh I think that is what happens many times. And I think that is what counts to most to have the period correct case. There is no proof like serial numbers on a case, so all what counts is period correct or correct for a specific model as some models were sold with special cases. Like in the 70ies and 70ies the color of the inside of the case was very specific for certain years. Like a 1967 Starfire came in a case with purple lining, just before it was burgundy red I believe (like in 1964 or so). But when somebody bought a Starfire in 1967, maybe the store had a case from 1964 sitting there (since the case was an option only) and so the case and the guitar were bought new but the case is not from that exact year like the guitar (due to the different color of the lining). But it was "the" original HSC from Guild when the first owner bought the guitar... Now if the guitar would be in a case that would be correct for say 1970 (due to yet another color inside), it would be clear that is not the OHSC. So many possibilities.
Ralf
 
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fronobulax

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Do any of us really know for sure (unless it's us that are the original owners) that it's the original case with the guitar? Guitar collectors track down "period correct" cases all the time. Who's to say these guitars weren't purchased new without cases and somewhere down the road someone in the line of owners found and matched it up with a period correct case?

You picked a nit that I was not even thinking of (although I should have, see below). There is a difference between an original case that was not an option but included when the guitar was sold, a case that was purchased, as an option, at the time the guitar was sold new, and a "period correct" case that could have been either of the former but lacks documentation. That said, I don't think the difference makes much of a difference in the current market. At least no one is admitting that they pay a premium if the documentation places the case as part of the original purchase.

I do think we would be having different conversations if the Universe had been consistent - either all new guitars were sold and delivered with a case or all cases were a (possibly extra cost) option. Part of these conversations deal with why a case might not be present.

I got my '67 SF I used. It came with a homemade gig bag which the seller's mother had made. It was a drawstring bag, with a little padding and in a flowery print that evoked the 1960's. By this time I had spent enough time around orchestra musicians and instruments to know that a hard case was really a necessity so I ordered one from Guild. (As a starving student, I note that the case cost a couple percentage points of my gross income). I always thought of it as an original HSC because it was purchased directly from Guild for that bass. I have since found out that, while the case fits, it is not period correct for a 60's bass. So my definitions have adjusted over the years and I will not call it an OHSC when I sell it :)
 

fronobulax

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Oh I think that is what happens many times. And I think that is what counts to most to have the period correct case. There is no proof like serial numbers on a case, so all what counts is period correct or correct for a specific model as some models were sold with special cases. Like in the 70ies and 70ies the color of the inside of the case was very specific for certain years. Like a 1967 Starfire came in a case with purple lining, just before it was burgundy red I believe (like in 1964 or so). But when somebody bought a Starfire in 1967, maybe the store had a case from 1964 sitting there (since the case was an option only) and so the case and the guitar were bought new but the case is not from that exact year like the guitar (due to the different color of the lining). But it was "the" original HSC from Guild when the first owner bought the guitar... Now if the guitar would be in a case that would be correct for say 1970 (due to yet another color inside), it would be clear that is not the OHSC. So many possibilities.
Ralf

*snicker* We were posting at the same time so I did not see this but you came close to describing my situation - a '67 Starfire bass in a 1970's period correct case that was sold by Guild for the bass.
 

adorshki

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And I think that is what counts to most to have the period correct case.

From a "collectability" standpoint, yes, especially since as mentioned, there's really no way to be sure it's the case that came with the guitar unless there's some provenance like receipts, period photos, personal acquaintance.
So "correct" is the next most desirable option.
I think Frono would get this:
How about dust sleeves for hardcover books?
I would imagine in certain situations there'd be ways of identifying it's the correct sleeve, but I'm sure there are cases (no pun) where it would be impossible to tell if it's actually the sleeve the book was shipped with and "correct" has the same value as "original".
Maybe even better value if the correct sleeve is in much better condition than the original?
Of course in the guitar world there are collectors who would value the "mojo" of an original case over a merely "correct" but pristine example accompanying the instrument.
Now, shall we continue on to convertible tops on cars?
:glee:
 

fronobulax

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How about dust sleeves for hardcover books?

Yea though I walk in the Valley of the Shadow of the Veer, I shall not fear it.

Maybe a good analogy but there is a commodity aspect to books that is not present for guitars. Simplistically, think of a batch of books as a group of books that was printed at the same time and place. There are often signs that will identify whether two books were from the same or different batches but it is practically impossible to distinguish between books from the same batch. So batch and condition drive value. If a batch was printed with dust covers then the absence of the book cover detracts from value. If present then the condition of the dust cover becomes important for valuation. The distribution model did not allow for the consumer to choose whether they bought a dust jacket or not. At best they could decide to throw it away. Given that individual books in a batch cannot be distinguished, what matters about a dust cover is that it was from the same batch (or not detectable as being from a different batch). But no one even asks whether this particular dust cover was on that book when they were first sold at retail. (That said, there are times when a book will be sold with a jacket from a later batch. It is considered dishonest to fail to disclose that fact when selling).

And book collectors do not start threads asking how to remove signatures from books or complaining how an autograph lowers the value :)
 

adorshki

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Given that individual books in a batch cannot be distinguished, what matters about a dust cover is that it was from the same batch (or not detectable as being from a different batch).
THAT'S what I was getting at, it's analogous to "correct" for a guitar case, if I'm thinking correctly.
(pun intended)
:tranquillity:
 
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