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Thread: Playing and singing gospel music

  1. #21
    Senior Member dreadnut's Avatar
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    If you can't hear the congregation singing, something's wrong. If, during the music, the primary focus is on something other than the congregational singing, something's wrong.
    TODAY is the TOMORROW you spent all day YESTERDAY acting like there was no.

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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by dreadnut View Post
    If you can't hear the congregation singing, something's wrong. If, during the music, the primary focus is on something other than the congregational singing, something's wrong.
    totally
    Wood

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    https://soundcloud.com/woody-adams/sets/not-metal

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by gjmalcyon View Post
    In the early ‘70’s and for a couple of years, I played a folk mass every Saturday evening at the Catholic church down the street with my buddy Dave. “I played” badly overstates my role: Dave rehearsed the two of us, arranged the music, led the singing, and played all the chords (even the hard ones). I hung out to his right and behind him, played what chords I could manage, and tried to not screw up too badly. (This is also when and how I met the girl who would become my wife.)


    I remember some Saturday evenings were loud with song and participation and others quiet. The hymns changed with the liturgical calendar (thus not too often), so it wasn’t familiarity (or lack thereof) with the music.


    I always chalked it up to the variability of the crowd.

    I remember the "folk masses" of the early 70's. I grew up in Miami, FL and there was church over by the University of Miami, St Augustine Church, that had the acoustic guitar accompaniment during the service on Saturday evenings. I enjoyed attending those services. This was during the time that the Catholic Church was transitioning from a mass celebrated in Latin, to one using the English translation. There really wasn't much of an established worship Hymnal in English, so the "folk mass" really did draw a lot on the folk songs of the 60's. This helped to encourage the mostly young congregation to sing along! And it created an almost "gather 'round the campfire" kind of celebration. I remember one evening the acoustic group played a version of "Uncle John's Band" by the Grateful Dead. That was pretty cool!
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  4. #24
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    For some reason this thread made me recall "Barney and the Choir":


    (That was the episode in which Jim Nabors sings "Santa Lucia", btw. Think it was his TV singing debut?)
    Last edited by adorshki; 03-07-2019 at 11:52 PM.
    Al
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  5. #25
    Senior Member dreadnut's Avatar
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    Haha Al, I just watched that episode on TV last night!

    There is a gal who sings with us at Eldermusic, and she always sings quite flat. But I wouldn't point that out to her in a million years; she is one of our most faithful volunteers.
    TODAY is the TOMORROW you spent all day YESTERDAY acting like there was no.

    '76 D-25M
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  6. #26
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreadnut View Post
    Haha Al, I just watched that episode on TV last night!

    There is a gal who sings with us at Eldermusic, and she always sings quite flat. But I wouldn't point that out to her in a million years; she is one of our most faithful volunteers.
    Kinda related, I remember several time over the years when I was in a "traditional" church, being told to open up the hymnal to page whatever, and wondering how the heck anybody ever managed to make out what the heck the melody was between so many off-key singers, (didn't anybody ever coach 'em?) or how I was expected to just jump right in on something I'd never heard before.
    Also wondered why the pastor assumed everybody knew how to read music.
    In retrospect, I realize I was probably assuming to much in my youthful naivete, and the hymnals were there primarily for folks to remember the words, and that "everybody" wasn't expected to be reading music.
    But it was never explained to me and I don't think I ever thought to ask.
    And this started when I would stay with my grandparents periodically, and grandma actually could read music and play piano.
    Still, it was like the stuff never resolved the way I thought it should, the melodies were always muddy.
    Maybe the folks who really wanted to learn joined the choir?
    Maybe that's why "traditional" (Protestant) church music just never grabbed me the way the "Old Testament" stuff did when I went to some Friday night services with a Jewish buddy in junior high school.
    My folks were very permissive about letting me go to whatever church my friends invited me to as a kid, although they never went themselves.
    I think it helped me have an open-minded attitude about religion in general.
    But that early bafflement always stuck with me..
    Last edited by adorshki; 03-08-2019 at 01:44 AM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  7. #27
    Super Moderator fronobulax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreadnut View Post
    If you can't hear the congregation singing, something's wrong. If, during the music, the primary focus is on something other than the congregational singing, something's wrong.
    Agreed. But there are definitely congregations that choose not to participate by actually singing so "what is wrong" might not necessarily be the volume of the accompaniment. It is sad how many people were told 50 years ago by an insensitive but influential person in their life, that they cannot or should not sing. Overcoming that is not something easily done.
    Quote Originally Posted by mgod View Post
    What he said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuball48 View Post
    Frono: You are correct----again.

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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by fronobulax View Post
    It is sad how many people were told 50 years ago by an insensitive but influential person in their life, that they cannot or should not sing. Overcoming that is not something easily done.
    always sad when that happens.
    Wood

    1971 D25--The Br
    1973 D35 esh

    https://soundcloud.com/woody-adams/sets/not-metal

  9. #29
    Super Moderator fronobulax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Kinda related, I remember several time over the years when I was in a "traditional" church, being told to open up the hymnal to page whatever, and wondering how the heck anybody ever managed to make out what the heck the melody was between so many off-key singers, (didn't anybody ever coach 'em?) or how I was expected to just jump right in on something I'd never heard before.
    Also wondered why the pastor assumed everybody knew how to read music.
    In retrospect, I realize I was probably assuming to much in my youthful naivete, and the hymnals were there primarily for folks to remember the words, and that "everybody" wasn't expected to be reading music.
    But it was never explained to me and I don't think I ever thought to ask.
    And this started when I would stay with my grandparents periodically, and grandma actually could read music and play piano.
    Still, it was like the stuff never resolved the way I thought it should, the melodies were always muddy.
    Maybe the folks who really wanted to learn joined the choir?
    Maybe that's why "traditional" (Protestant) church music just never grabbed me the way the "Old Testament" stuff did when I went to some Friday night services with a Jewish buddy in junior high school.
    My folks were very permissive about letting me go to whatever church my friends invited me to as a kid, although they never went themselves.
    I think it helped me have an open-minded attitude about religion in general.
    But that early bafflement always stuck with me..
    Tradition. There certainly were times and places where any child who had made it through sixth grade knew how to read music. In the traditional organ/choir set up the choir was expected to be able to lead the congregation "by example" and the music director was expected to stay near the familiar and provide some kind of "training" otherwise. But using a hymnal with words and music was a strategic decision and making the decision required some kind of provision for people who did not read music.

    It is well known that the verse/chorus song structure is easy to learn by rote since people hear the chorus several times. There are traditions, and the associated hymnals, that leverage this structure to increase participation.

    You were frustrated by not reading music. Perhaps my most frustrating church music experience was attending a service where my nephew and his wife were the worship leaders in a mostly acoustic praise band. In keeping with the tradition of that congregation, there was no music available anywhere and the words were projected on a screen. Since all the songs were new to me and the genre was not one I was totally comfortable with, my attempts to participate were reduced to a pitch-less recitation of the words. I redeemed the worship experience by giving up on the words and melody and singing what I would have tried to play on bass.

    This was an interesting topic of discussion on the car ride home and one key point of agreement was that whether you use a hymnal or project lyrics, there will be people whose participation will be hindered by that choice and a worship leader needs to understand how that inclusion/exclusion plays out in their congregation.

    Back to dread's "course" I would expect the Eldermusic experience has a lot of practical tips on how to teach people songs and encourage participation and as a participant in the course, I'd love to walk away with some of that knowledge.
    Quote Originally Posted by mgod View Post
    What he said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuball48 View Post
    Frono: You are correct----again.

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  10. #30
    Senior Member dreadnut's Avatar
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    Preach it, Bro Frono!

    Here's another observation. I lead music with "Special Friends" sometimes, they are all people of different abilities who live in foster care homes. They come together once a month to visit, eat, sing, etc. I'm here to tell you, they could teach most congregations something about uninhibited worship!
    TODAY is the TOMORROW you spent all day YESTERDAY acting like there was no.

    '76 D-25M
    '99 DV-52ABHG (gave to my son)
    '98 DeArmond Starfire Special
    Takamine Acoustic Flying "A"
    Crate CA-125D Acoustic Amp
    Fishman Loudbox Mini Acoustic Amp

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