Detuning during shipping

Cougar

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Is it really necessary, or advised, to detune a guitar before shipping?
 

richardp69

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To be honest I don't really know. But it always seemed to make sense to me. I tune my guitars down one step when I ship. I guy I know that works at a major Music Store said don't detune the strings to slack so I don't do that.
 

GAD

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I tune down a a few turns and that's all. I agree - don't slack the strings.

I've read that no major manufacturer detunes their guitars for shipping. I think it's something that started with people having broken headstocks on Les Pauls thinking that it would solve that problem. IMO, proper neck support is far more important.
 

Grassdog

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It seems to me that every reputable seller I've ever worked with has detuned or slackened the strings prior to shipping. So, I have always done the same when I'm selling. My assumption is this lessens stress on the bridge during times of temperature and humidity fluctuations which are prone to occur during shipping. But I have no real evidence to present to support this.
 

dreadnut

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Just my humble opinion, but that's why they make hardshell carry cases, no need to de-tune.
 

Cougar

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Just my humble opinion, but that's why they make hardshell carry cases, no need to de-tune.

That's what I was thinking. I know it's a very common practice when shipping, but I don't detune a guitar in between playing it from one day (or week) to the next, and that apparently doesn't harm the guitar. After all, they're built to withstand tuning to concert pitch. I'm just not sure getting knocked around during shipment may cause any additional stress to the guitar if it's not detuned, assuming it's packed well.

Thanks for all responses. I'm asking in particular regarding 12-strings. Additional responses appreciated!

- Cougar :tiger:
 

gjmalcyon

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As GAD points out, "proper neck support is far more important."

Conducting a little thought experiment, it seems to me that the tension of a tuned 12-string would help support the headstock in the event of the dreaded "flat on it's back" shipper toss.
 

swiveltung

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Hard to say for sure but I like to loosen down just a bit. I agree with the neck support comment. IF strings were totally slack, I could see an overhanging headstock breaking easier if the box was dropped hard and the momentum of the heastock broke the neck.
 

chazmo

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I think I've done both (slack and just detune a couple of steps) when I've shipped. I've never shipped under full tension.

My thoughts are this: Under tension, you can be sure that the damage will be worse if something compromises the neck during shipping. Without tension, things might not split or splinter thereby making possible repairs potentially less significant.

That said, nobody wants their guitar damaged during shipping, so the admonitions about proper neck support, etc., in the HSC, and proper packing within the shipping box are all right on.
 

Nuuska

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If there is a chance of air freight - then the temperature can go REALLY low - and that affects strings more than wood.

So - maybe - maybe not - those changes in temp are not exactly abrupt - while the plane can get to icy altitudes in minutes, the inside of cargo space takes it's time to adjust - same when coming down.


"I've spent my whole life - in clouds at icy altitudes . . ."
 

adorshki

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Hard to say for sure but I like to loosen down just a bit. I agree with the neck support comment. IF strings were totally slack, I could see an overhanging headstock breaking easier if the box was dropped hard and the momentum of the heastock broke the neck.

That was the takeaway I got a few years back when the same question was asked, that some string tension helped prevent the headstock from "whiplashing" under certain possible impacts
Grassdog's mention of stress on bridge was new to me though, and is certainly worth considering, and still seems to support the idea of hedging your bets: back off a little, like a whole step.
 
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jedzep

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It's like a tight muscle under stress. Relax it a bit when there might be unpredictable conditions like temp and jarring. I remove endpins and ask senders to do that for me as well, but I only do the old guitars. Maybe contemp instruments are more stable, but string tension transmits into the body unpredictably. I recall selling a minty 70's D25 that developed a wraparound side crack in both directions from the end pin about 8 inches each side. I think it was packed tight and hardly de-tuned, so I couldn't say what happened, but what I remember was the disappointment in the buyer's voice. He really wanted a 'minty' guitar. I had to pony up.

Hey...I play a whole step down. How 'bout 3 steps? There has to be fair tension though, nothing approaching slack.
 
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twocorgis

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I've shipped lots of guitars, and I always detune, but I've heard arguments on both sides of the fence. It might not make that much difference, but it makes me feel better. What I have learned is the most important part of shipping an acoustic guitar is to completely immobilize the instrument inside the case, especially the headstock. It's the "whiplash" that gets a lot of them. Removing the endpin, or packing tightly around the area if it has an output jack is also very important. I've shipped guitars all over the world, and no mishaps yet!
 

Guildedagain

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Sorry if this info is already outdated, I started writing this ten hours ago when there was one reply, and then realized I should be outside shoveling from last night's storm, and then shovel roofs that are about to cave, and then plow, and plow, and plow the worst sloppiest snow I've seen, four hours of plowing for four driveways, and then more shoveling...

So... I've been studying this for a while, and I still am.

There will be a few schools of thought, and maybe there should be.

Guitars are not all alike.

I used to ship guitars everywhere, no longer going to happen with the CITES fascism, all you need to do is apply for a permit with the USDA, then Fish and Wildlife is if those guys hadn't done anything but disasters around here, like giving us free wolf packs, but I digress as usual...

When you ship a guitar, you want to get there in one piece, it's just best for everyone, and ultimately, the guitar. Some guitars are more important than people (my own silly opinion), but like my 1973 Guild D35, it's still around, I don't know if anybody that owned it is still around, and frankly, it doesn't really matter. What I'm saying is this guitar might have already outlived a lot of people that were around it, but the guitar remains, and I hope that in twenty years, it is still being played by someone, when I'm no longer around. The guitar will still matter, but I may have returned to matter.

The other day, there was a sad feeBay ad of a beautiful but broken Guild Archtop, the back just about busted clean off from an impact to the endpin, and the ad said "no case, but this time it will be packed in a way that assures no further damage to the guitar".

If you're buying a guitar, you should worry about what the shipper is doing... Coach him if you have to, but if it's like my recent experience, I told the guy how to pack it, and I thought we agreed on Priority Mail and I said I'll chip in over the free shipping in his ad. Next thing I know, he says the clerk at Staples told him it was better to UPS ground it, and they charged $150 to ship a 20lb box, which he then wanted me to chip in on, I mean like wt? I don't even know if he followed a single of my packing instructions, and like sellers who do weird unexpected things, he wouldn't answer anymore emails.

For this one, I wanted him to slack the strings a full turn from standard pitch, put something under the strings, pad the headstock properly, etc etc.

I have shipped a lot of guitars with amazing luck over the years.

A Strat or Tele, you don't need to slack the strings, I don't think.

A Les Paul or SG, loosen the strings a little.

Of course, if it's summer or winter that throws an additional monkeywrench into things. Winter is probably better. I welcome crazing myself, and that's probably the worst that could happen. Summer heat can soften glue, and that could be trouble with a lot of tension on the strings, I'd avoid it.

I did read up on shipping acoustics before even paying for the guitar, and there are a few schools of thought, from tuned to pitch to totally slack.

Totally slack sounds like a bad idea, strings flapping around, and in some cases, I read stories of bridge pins coming out and floating around the case, along with the strings...

Supposedly, all of the big acoustic makers ship with strings up to pitch, and feel fairly condescending about it, but they are brand new guitars, and if anything happens, UPS/FedEx probably takes the blame.

Proponents of shipping at full tension will also have you believing that the weight of the tuners will shear the headstock without string tension, and maybe this is a thing, so there is two reasons to keep some tension on the strings, but maybe back off a little, especially it is old.

With older guitar with steep head angles and sometimes crappy cases, look at how clear the end of the headstock is from the bottom of the case, it it does not clear the case bottom very well, add an old guitar cleaning cloth folded four time or similar where the neck rests on the case support, add as much material as you need to make sure the end or the headstock can never contact the case bottom.

If it's too close and there's a hard impact, like a standing cases falling in its back, it can snap the headstock off the neck.
 
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Cougar

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Thanks for the extensive response and info, Guilded!

...I used to ship guitars everywhere, no longer going to happen with the CITES fascism, all you need to do is apply for a permit with the USDA, then Fish and Wildlife is if those guys hadn't done anything but disasters around here, like giving us free wolf packs, but I digress as usual...

Haha! I guess our new place over in northern Idaho by Lake Pend Oreille (north of CDA) isn't tremendously far from eastern WA, so we get similar weather. We're not living there yet, so we have a guy come and plow our driveway when needed, which was 8 times last month. (We actually had a couple of vacation renters last month, too.) It's a long-ish driveway....

1286879.jpg


A shot from our security cam....

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Mark WW

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Every "New" guitar I have received was tuned orchestra. Only a few used were tuned down and one of those had shipping damage so go figure. I ship all mine tuned normal.
 

adorshki

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Supposedly, all of the big acoustic makers ship with strings up to pitch, and feel fairly condescending about it, but they are brand new guitars, and if anything happens, UPS/FedEx probably takes the blame.
There's also the likelihood that if they're shipping several units to a given location they'd actually strap 'em to a pallet and take advantage of a lower bulk rate that many manufacturers negotiate with those guys.
Also much less danger of handling damage by that method.
If it's too close and there's a hard impact, like a standing cases falling in its back, it can snap the headstock off the neck.
I think you meant if there's too much room (for it to move), but yes I think that's why Martin said they ship at full tension a few years back.
Suspect that Staples clerk might have actually been trying to be helpful but suspect there was shipping & handling income for the store.
Besides that possible added expense, all the Carriers have been using new "dimensional" shipping rates everybody adopted a couple of years back.
It's not about actual weight anymore, it's about size and efficiently loading cargo spaces. Guitar boxes are oddball shapes and were subject to oversize charges even before the new freight rate system was adopted.
You can probably thank Amazon for putting so much light-weight stuff into the system that wound up costing carriers more than they were making based on weight alone.
( I was gonna say the Staples guy was a clueless twit until I calmed down and tried to think of legitimate reasons he suggested it. For them, UPS might well have been the best answer.)
 
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