I have a 1981 F-412 that I bought about 17 yrs ago. It probably needed a neck reset at that time but I was not knowledgeable enough to know it. As my knowledge of such things grew over the intervening years, I came to the conclusion that the saddle had been shaved down at some point prior to my ownership and that this was robbing my guitar of the kind of sound that an F-412 should make. I began to contact some local luthiers to get their opinions and estimates. Several of them tried to talk me out of spending the money, saying that they could shave the bridge. etc. I didn't want to go that route. Let me say that, having been a Guild owner since the 1960s, it always bugs me to encounter luthiers who act as though working on a Guild is a chore they condescend to do wishing it were a Martin or Gibson. It was on this forum that I read about Jacobs Guitar Repair in Florida. I called Tom Jacobs and arranged to get my guitar to him. Well, I got my guitar back last week and couldn't be happier with the results. This beauty now sounds and plays better than it ever has since I've owned it. I am so glad I didn't take it elsewhere but to a person who really respects the brand. He will definitely get some of my other Guilds in the future. I also appreciate the fact that, were it not for this forum, I might have taken it to someone else with lesser results. I know that there are other repairmen out there who are capable but finding them is the trick. I now have my go to guy.
F-412 Neck Reset
- Thread starter GC
- Start date
Cougar
Enlightened Member
Major congrats on bringing that classic back to full life! I know what you mean about a low saddle on an F412 - I had one for a short while. My tech at the time suggested I ramp the bridge pins, which I had him do. It still couldn't match my stellar Corona-built JF30-12, so I eventually let it go. But you did the right thing. Great to hear it. Speaking of which, photos and a sound clip would be nice. :tiger:
That's wonderful to hear, GC!
Yup, you likely won't get any arguments on this forum. Tom and his staff are top notch and their prices fair as well.
These pictures were taken before the reset. The only difference you would see now is a much more robust bridge saddle.
https://i.imgur.com/5qvhttps://i.imgur.com/9yzPJiZ.jpgJmMW.jpg
I don't know if this works.
https://i.imgur.com/5qvhttps://i.imgur.com/9yzPJiZ.jpgJmMW.jpg
I don't know if this works.
silverfox103
Senior Member
Westerly Wood
Venerated Member
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I think silverfox means the link does not work.
What a great story, and a story with a good outcome. I'm usually careful about spending too much money when I buy a guitar, but after I buy it, it joins my family and I actually enjoy spending money to repair, enhance or improve my family member. I respect my luthier, he does Martin warranty work..... guitars from all over the USA. He loves my DV-62, played it and sang for an hour once, he removes smudges and scratches for me with wet 2000 grit special sand paper. He says Guild American made, one issue with a neck reset is making the gloss finish look descent. I can't remember but I think it has to do something with how he needs to remove the neck is unique on Guilds. (???)
My main point is, I think for many of us, it's really exciting when a family member returns from the guitar hospital, all fixed up, mechanically tuned up and ready to perform.
What a great story, and a story with a good outcome. I'm usually careful about spending too much money when I buy a guitar, but after I buy it, it joins my family and I actually enjoy spending money to repair, enhance or improve my family member. I respect my luthier, he does Martin warranty work..... guitars from all over the USA. He loves my DV-62, played it and sang for an hour once, he removes smudges and scratches for me with wet 2000 grit special sand paper. He says Guild American made, one issue with a neck reset is making the gloss finish look descent. I can't remember but I think it has to do something with how he needs to remove the neck is unique on Guilds. (???)
My main point is, I think for many of us, it's really exciting when a family member returns from the guitar hospital, all fixed up, mechanically tuned up and ready to perform.
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Can someone describe the effect on tonal characteristics, when we lower the strings at the saddle, either by shaving the saddle or shaving the bridge. If relief is good and action is high, those are the only ways to lower action, correct? If you shave down the bridge enough, you can install a full tall saddle, correct, and then the string angles coming off the saddle could be just like new.
So I'm guessing it is more than just string angle off the saddle?
A lot of Bluegrass around my home East Tennessee, they like high action and claim it's related to a deeper bolder sound. That maybe is not related to strings height at bridge.
So I'm guessing it is more than just string angle off the saddle?
A lot of Bluegrass around my home East Tennessee, they like high action and claim it's related to a deeper bolder sound. That maybe is not related to strings height at bridge.
geoguy
Senior Member
Let's see if this works:
Good move sending the guitar to Tom. He's by far the best man for the job. Enjoy your "new" guitar!
did you ask Tom if he was working at Westerly in 1981 when your F412 was built? that would be cool. maybe he walked by it or parts of it one day
I really enjoyed meeting him. He joked that he was probably doing neck resets on guitars he had built. He had 3 or 4 Guilds including mine that were having resets done when I was there. One of them was an F-612.
geoguy, thanks for posting the picture. This is GC's guitar?
That some beauty. Fabulous burst, and that's just the back!!!!!
That some beauty. Fabulous burst, and that's just the back!!!!!
https://imgur.com/5qvJmMW
If you click on this you can see the front. I still haven't figured out how drag these pics over.
If you click on this you can see the front. I still haven't figured out how drag these pics over.
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GC, the instructions are here in the FAQ thread: http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?185122-FAQ-Posting-pictures-to-LTG
adorshki
Reverential Member
The relationship between bridge/top/and saddle is interdependant so there's an "optimum range" for each element but the basic ideas are:
Bridge mass helps move the top, so shaving the bridge can have a negative impact by no longer imparting enough impetus to the top.
(Also, if the bridge is shaved too much then it may become prone to splitting and/or the saddle slot can't be deep enough to prevent forward lean, throwing off intonation.)
THE energy of a vibrating string is transmitted to the top through the saddle, bridge, and bridgeplate.
Break angle affects how much of that string energy is transmitted. A sharper angle transmits more energy, and the taller the saddle, the better (sharper) the break angle.
Over the years, for steel flattops at least, it's been found that a combined bridge and saddle height of about 1/2" (measured right in front of the bridge and from bottom of D/G strings to the top) creates the optimum break angle for best energy transfer from strings to top.
Of that /12", ideally bridge is about 5/16" and saddle's about 3/16". (Amount showing above slot)
Again, all subject to variations within a narrow range by make and individual guitar's original neck angle, and string gauge set and tuning tension.
Technically "action" is the height of the strings above the 12th fret, a measure of playability.
Well action is adjusted by saddle height, but if the neck's going out of alignment the action can be too high even with the saddle shaved way too low to be doing any good, sound wise..
If your bluegrass players are actually saying they like a tall saddle for volume (which also tends to imply a high action at 12th fret), well, they're right and now you know why.