Newer Starfire Basses-Do they compare?

Hennebeau

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Hey Folks: Am a longtime owner of a '66 Starfire bass, and I'm presently looking for a backup. I've been trying out some of the newer models and have come away w/ mixed feelings. My question is: is there a certain newer Starfire that is unanimously considered to be close in feel to one of the '60s? Not so concerned about electronics. Regards
 

Minnesota Flats

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I Have a couple of Newarks and a 90s MIA SF-II. A comparison of my MIKs to the MIA would be "apples-and-oranges", partly because the latter is loaded with "Guild 'Buckers" and the former with current-production Bi-Sonics. For that reason, I don't feel qualified to offer comments in regard to comparing a Newark and to a 1960s MIA SF. That said, I really like the way my Newarks sound and feel.

One issue I would suggest you be on the lookout for when examining Newarks is the fretboard edges: most of the ones I've seen that had been designated as "seconds" or "blems" had small areas of clear-coat "fogging" over the rosewood edges. Never saw any actually finish chipping (which might indicate poor finish adhesion) so it may be a purely cosmetic issue. If it doesn't bother you, it may actually be something you could parley into a price discount if you find such an instrument that you like otherwise as a player.
 

fronobulax

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I'm a little confused by the question since I no longer would call the 90's reissues "newer models".

mavuser is, IMO, the local expert on the 90's reissues and he has compared them to both pre-1977 and Newark Street basses. The big thing that I recall is that the body dimensions are not the same.

Given that the Newark Street basses are the newest models, I can't comment on how a NS SF II compares to anything. But I'd expect many of the conclusions abut a NS SF I apply to the SF II.

That said, I bought an early NS SF I out of curiosity and haven't parted with it. The obvious comparison is with my '67 SF I. Sonically they are not the same. If I wanted the sound of the vintage I pretty much can only get it with the vintage.

But you asked about "feel" and except for the right hand position, my NS and my '67 feel the same. Same strap positions, same body angles when sitting, same neck feel. I did a silly experiment where I closed my eyes, have someone hand me a bass and I simulated playing with just my fretting hand. I could not tell which bass was which.

I can obviously tell the difference with the right but the adjustment is insignificant to me. So if your criteria is "feel" I'd consider buying a NS as a backup as long as the sonic differences are OK.

I definitely use the NS when I am playing somewhere where the instrument is on a stand and could be knocked off, when I'm working with kids who want to touch the instrument and when the risk of theft is higher.

I have had no fit and finish issues but people have reported issues with NS Starfires so the advice to inspect the instrument or have a reasonable return policy is good
 

mellowgerman

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Yes, the Newark Street models are probably the closest to a 60's vintage, with the main differences being the electronics and the finish. Still pretty darn close and, relatively speaking, excellent value since the SFB-I and M85 can be found used for around $600 with the hardshell case.
Another one to check out maybe would be the DeArmond Starfire from the 90's, though I personally would not pay more than $500 for one. Also a great instrument, but the pickups on them are humbuckers, the neck feels different, and the bridge has Fender-style adjustable saddles. That said, the scale is the same, the looks are similar, and they really are quality instruments. Back in college I had one with Hammon Dark Star pickups and a slew of wacky electronics as my main player for about a year. Fun times and it was nice that it didn't need to be babied and protected like a vintage instrument... would not have wanted to bring an original 60's Starfire to all those crazy chemically enhanced basement parties of which the human attendees alone were lucky to survive
 

Minnesota Flats

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Two other differences in the DeArmond SF: (1)-bound neck (2)-no master volume (a feature that I really like).
 

adorshki

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would not have wanted to bring an original 60's Starfire to all those crazy chemically enhanced basement parties of which the human attendees alone were lucky to survive
Am I to infer from this that there were animal attendees which weren't?
Oh the humanity!
 

mellowgerman

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Am I to infer from this that there were animal attendees which weren't?
Oh the humanity!

I was thinking human VS. inanimate objects (such as instruments). I recall there sometimes being pets, but they'd typically stay upstairs, out of the way of the madness.

Also, let's see your '66!
 
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Minnesota Flats

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True cliche: "If you remember the '60s, you weren't there..."

BTW:

My 1990s (MIA): top is 3/16" thick, body is 1-1/2" deep at bound edge

My Newark (MIK): top is 1/8" thick, body is 1-3/4" deep at bound edge

Both tops are plywood.

Because of the difference in body depth, the HS cases for these basses are not interchangeable. Cases for the shallower, 1990s (MIA) SFs are easily differentiated at a glance because they have 7 rather than 5 drawbolt/latches.
 

edwin

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True cliche: "If you remember the '60s, you weren't there..."

OTOH, I just did a gig in Eugene with original Merry Pranksters Babbs and Walker on stage. Neal Cassady's birthday. That's all I'll say about that.
 

adorshki

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I remember seeing this character when I was in high school. He got the jump on the "Summer of Love" by a long shot.

The "Original Hippie":

http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/state/20040809-2136-ca-obit-gypsyboots.html

Love it!
And a photo in Topanga Canyon, to boot, later home to Canned Heat and even one of our members (think it's Cougar) who was in an experimental band in the late '60's/early '70's.
I never realized but according to Wiki, Topanga was an alternative culture scene even before Laurel Canyon in the '60's:
"In the 1950s, blacklisted actor Will Geer had to sell his large Santa Monica home and move his family to a small plot in the canyon where they could grow their own produce. Geer's friend Woody Guthrie had a small shack on the property. They unintentionally founded what became an artists' colony."
Heck I was born in N. Hollywood myself and used to spend summers down there with my gram-p's until they got worried I might get contaminated by hippies and moved to Hollister.
Didn't matter, I spent most of the year with my folks in San Jose, home of The Count Five, the Syndicate of Sound, and the very first acid test, so I was ultimately indoctrinated by music anyway.
:glee:
And while we're on the subject of the roots of the counterculture, this is the character who wrote "All Is Loneliness" Big Brother and The Holding Company's first single:
Moondog_dressed_as_Odin.jpg

Moondog
NOT to be confused with Gidget's boyfriend:
'Moondog's music took inspiration from street sounds, such as the subway or a foghorn. It was characterized by what he called "snaketime" and described as "a slithery rhythm, in times that are not ordinary [...] I'm not gonna die in 4/4 time".[8] Many of his works were highly contrapuntal, and he worked hard on counterpoint. '
 

Minnesota Flats

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I grew up north of Topanga. We lived there because we couldn't afford Santa Monica. This was back before the movie and rock stars took the area over in a wholesale migration. There had been an enclave called "The Colony" north of Malibu Pier since the silent movie days but it was less expensive to live in most of the rest of the area until the 1970s and 1980s. Back when I lived there there was very little out there in the way on amenities: no super market, no movie theater, no middle school, no high school, no Pepperdine College, etc. Many of the beaches that were later developed into public parks were then privately owned land. Topanga, for example, was acquired for corversion into a park by the State of California from the Los Angeles Athletic Club, which had been leasing lots to the people who had built the houses that used to be there. These leases expired in 1973 and the people who lived there were told to remove their homes or they would be demolished.

When they built the Mayfair Market and Malibu Drugs at the bottom of Malibu Canyon, it was a very big deal. Other conveniences were later added, making living in the area more convenient and attractive. The laws of supply and demand did the rest. I believe the record selling price of a house there, to date, is $75,000,000.00. Everybody I grew up with was eventually forced out of the area by escalating rents/real estate prices/property taxes.
 

Minnesota Flats

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Guess we're kinda straying "a little bit" from the original topic. Sorry 'bout that...
 

adorshki

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Don't fear the veer.

And since SF basses are indivisibly part of the image of at least 2 counterculture music giants, discussing the historical context of their usage ain't so far off the tracks anyway..
See about enrolling in my class next semester:
"Icons of the Counterculture: Myths and Magic in the Suburbs of Babylon"
:glee:

The only loose end is Mellow's request for pics.
Since I think the OP got his question answered before a fresh wind veered in against the empire, he may have never seen the request and a PM might be advisable.
:friendly_wink:
 

krysh

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And since SF basses are indivisibly part of the image of at least 2 counterculture music giants, discussing the historical context of their usage ain't so far off the tracks anyway..
See about enrolling in my class next semester:
"Icons of the Counterculture: Myths and Magic in the Suburbs of Babylon"
:glee:

The only loose end is Mellow's request for pics.
Since I think the OP got his question answered before a fresh wind veered in against the empire, he may have never seen the request and a PM might be advisable.
:friendly_wink:
go into politics....
 

adorshki

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go into politics....

My dereliction, er, elocution's too... I mean look at that guy who, he can't talk too good.... he's too complicated.
But at least you can trust me to say the same thing tomorrow I said today, even if it's different.
 
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