Battery packs, etc. inside a guitar - negative effect on unplugged sound?

walrus

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I really don't play plugged in with my acoustic very much, since I have an electric. But there may come a point where I will want to - open mics, etc. I tried the F-30RCE again a few times just to hear how the DTAR system sounds. I still find that the K&K pure mini in my D64 has a better acoustic sound.

And I can't find the thread, but recently there was another discussion about acoustic pickups and someone posted about the "intrusiveness" of the battery bag, the batteries, the volume and tone control hanging in the soundhole, etc. with acoustic under saddle pickups that need them. That's how I feel about the DTAR system!

I am considering having the DTAR removed and replace it with a K&K pure mini. If I do it, it's for both aesthetic and sound quality reasons.

I am loving this guitar, it sounds great, plays great, etc. But here's a related question I've been pondering, and can't recall being discussed before:

Does the battery pack (in this case an actual bag Velcro-ed to the inside of the guitar, right under the neck block) have a negative impact on the unplugged acoustic sound? i.e. it's taking up space in the guitar, cutting down on the sound vibrations, etc. Right? Or not?

walrus
 

AcornHouse

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You can do your own experiment. On your D64, play it (or better, have someone else play it while you listen). Then, using some painter’s tape, or other low tack tape, attach an appropriate sized object to the sides in the upper bout. Listen again.

The upper bout cavity will certainly have less of an impact than anything in the middle. But, I suspect, the amount of airspace taken is proportionally fairly small, and relatively non-impactful.

Now, anything blocking the soundhole significantly does certainly have an impact. You can test this just by putting your hand over it. But, again, a tiny mic is proportionally very small.
 

Nuuska

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. . .Does the battery pack (in this case an actual bag Velcro-ed to the inside of the guitar, right under the neck block) have a negative impact on the unplugged acoustic sound? i.e. it's taking up space in the guitar, cutting down on the sound vibrations, etc. Right? Or not?

walrus


Hello

Definitively YES - but how much? Technically ANY change in ANYTHING changes things. To better or worse is in the ear of the listener.

Problem arises with the fact, that hearing memory is very short - we are talking about seconds - so how to compare?


Then fair guessing:
Position at neck block is the least sensitive in acoustic guitar body. So very small or even minimal effect on anything.
Battery pack volume is maybe 1% of internal volume - so nothing great to be expected in air volume resonances.
Controls at soundhole rim are even smaller. . . so . . .

Compared to above facts, it is fair to assume, that the way you hold the guitar - your clothing etc - have similar or even greater impact to unplugged sound.

My 0,02 €
 

richardp69

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I can't really tell that it makes any difference but others here will likely disagree.

If you take the DTAR out and want to sell it keep me in mind. I'm a DTAR fan.
 

walrus

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walrus
 

Grassdog

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Does the battery pack (in this case an actual bag Velcro-ed to the inside of the guitar, right under the neck block) have a negative impact on the unplugged acoustic sound? i.e. it's taking up space in the guitar, cutting down on the sound vibrations, etc. Right? Or not?

walrus

IMHO it really doesn't matter. Yes, to some extent the battery pack and other materials inside might have a negligible impact, but is it enough to be discernible? I've removed active pickups with battery packs from my acoustics and I never really noticed any difference at all to the "unplugged" acoustic tone of the instrument. Then again, I was never expecting to there to be an "improved" tone, so maybe I just missed it.
 

JohnW63

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I think while some serious engineering sound monitoring stuff might show something, it is my view that as long as it doesn't change how the top vibrates and doesn't sit in a "acoustically important" space in the cavity, it probably has not enough effect to change how it sounds.
 

Cougar

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I'll go with the consensus - negligible effect.
 

Rayk

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walrus
I agree with the no change or any change would so minimal not to be noticed.

I've installed and unistalled some and besides a weight factor there was no real change in tone . There are exceptions in some cases like with your Dtar, there is a possibility the removal of the UST could improve/change the tone a bit but you need sensitive ears to pick up on it and you could feel a difference.

Lastly any change we make sets or mind up to believe something has happened and we expect it to happen so we think we hear a difference where there is none .
We could start the argument over how the tone is changed between having a cut a way or not having one but I think we'll leave that one a lone . Lol
 

adorshki

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I'll go with the consensus - negligible effect.
Yeah I know, late to the party, but I also say "probably not humanly perceptible" for yet another reason yet unmentioned:
The vast majority of the sound is produced by the lower bout.
In previous discussions it's been said that this is why double 'guards and cutaways have very little effect on tone.
And suspect the same is true of the battery pack.
Suspect the cutaway's already done more in terms of diminished body volume than the battery.
And even cutaways are said to have negligible effect so suspect battery pack's not a worry at all.
I say work on getting to the magic 200 hours (in my experience, might be less for an NH) of playing time for it to really open up.
:friendly_wink:
 

walrus

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As I said, my main reason for doing it is the "plugged in" sound - to my ears the K&K sounds better than the DTAR. More "acoustic". Also, not a major issue, but I'm not in love with the "look" of the volume and tone controls in the soundhole. I'm fussy, I know.

I was just wondering if I might get an "extra" benefit out of it unplugged, too. Sounds like not really.

If I'm not there, I'm close to the 200 hours. Of course, I'm not sure how much the previous owner played it. He said not much. The guitar sounds great, very open, more volume than I expected with the smaller body. I even have extra light strings on it - Ernie Ball Aluminum Bronze, .10 - .50. These are in between D'Addario extra light (.10 - .47) and D'Addario Custom Light (.11 - .52). This set up is not for everyone, but for me and how I play, the playability of the guitar is outstanding! And my main reason for going to the smaller body - comfort in my shoulder (i.e. I'm getting old), has definitely been a success!

Hey, Ray, I didn't think of the"weight factor". It should take an ounce or two off the weight - can't hurt!

walrus
 

Rayk

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Can't hurt , yup yup yup .lol I put in that Miniflex daul condenser mic in my Blueridge dread that put about two pounds on to her lol
 

adorshki

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Can't hurt , yup yup yup .lol I put in that Miniflex daul condenser mic in my Blueridge dread that put about two pounds on to her lol

And truthfully I wonder how much weight the (factory) Fishman AG125 adds to my D40.
I've always figured just a few ounces.
 

evenkeel

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I've put well over a dozen pu's in Guilds, Martins, Gibsons, Eastman and others. Jumbo's to parlor guitars. Some were active systems with a battery pack, others passive. I've also converted passive systems to active. I've never detected any change in unamplified sound, volume, tone, etc..
 
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