D-55 Dilemma

richardp69

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The D 50 remains probably my favorite Guild Dread. I just picked up a 1980 Westerly built D 50 and it's pretty special. I'll give it up for the bling/features on the D 55 though. Also, a great Guild.
 

bobouz

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Don’t let it go. Negotiate a fair price w GC based on a repair estimate & keep this guitar while continuing your search.

If one someday comes along that’s superior overall, then sell the one you have. But that day may be a long time in coming, or it may never come. Guilds are not crancked out in cookie cutter fashion!
 

bronzeback

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$1900 is high to me... I watched a Tacoma D55 in excellent shape go locally last year for $1200. I bought my New Hartford for not much more than that used from Sam Ash a few months ago. 70's and 80's D50's you should be able to find around the $1k mark if you are patient. I'd return, or see if they will haggle. That's a lot of scratch for a guitar you have doubts about.
 

GF60

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Are you able to post any pictures of the D-55? That may help some with offering advice.
 

TBK711

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Thanks all.

Yeah, that is my thinking - $1900 is high, but it served its purpose - validated that I do love these D-55’s. Several months ago there was a really nice looking - like mint looking - Reverb D55 from New Hartford for 1900 I offered $1600, as that is where I was at the time. I wish that guitar was still available now, but that guitar does confirm that if I am patient enough, I should find it.

I’ve thought about compromising - and negotiating with GC for a partial refund - but I am thinking (at least at this moment) that I will return it. I don’t want to scratch the D55 off my list of desired guitars if it doesn’t look the part, afterall one of the things about D55’s is that they are so darn pretty.

... I’m thinking for example - even if I got them to knock it down to $1000, it is a great deal, but maybe not THE D55 that I want and then that $1000 won’t be available when a cool D40 or F50 or something that I may also want pops up.

.... on the other hand if I could negotiate a deal (which is of course doubtful), I could keep this sweet sounding guitar for awhile and resell it for what I paid and still move forward with the one I find. Ah, but who’s to say it will sell fast. And, I honestly doubt GC will knock much off - they seem less and less open to negotiation everytime I try. Return is probably the best route.

I would still be interested in hearing thoughts about New Hartford d55’s - any merit to my concern that they could feel super light and toy like as my Taylor does - I do really like the heft of this westerly D55.

And thanks again guys. I love that there is a resource like this available with all you guys who ‘have been there and done it.’
 

TBK711

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Pictures? Yes, I am sure I can figure that out. I’m out to dinner with my kids now, but when I get back I will see if I can post some pics.
 

idealassets

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As you are aware, owning nice guitars does cost something. Don't let me or anyone cause you to make a bad decision for your purposes. I own a Tacoma made D55 that I will not let go. I like the heft. Not so certain I would like a newer model, but even those are rare and I have never been able to sound demo one, because they sell off easily. Have sound demo'd many other new or used various other models of Guild's though..

They are not making any more Westerly D55's, and I wouldn't mind getting one. There are the particulars of older guitar construction vs. new, and many details that may keep one's interest.

I would love to see images of this Westerly.
 
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TBK711

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Hey guys sorry I didn’t get the pictures posted and now I am on a business trip for a few days. I do have some pics on my phone though that the GC guy sent me when I purchased it. Will see if Incan figure it out now.
 

JohnW63

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You need to upload them to a picture hosting web site, that you have created an account on. Then you can link to them from here. Or, create your own web site and host them yourself.
 

taabru45

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What area do you live in. I have a like new D55 Tacoma. Sunburst with Dtar pick up.. I may sell it..undecided..but wouldn't want to ship it in this weather. Steffan
 

TBK711

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Attempting to post pics

https://imgur.com/a/oh7vBtF

I think you should be able to see them at this link?

Again - these are the pics that I requested from the guitar center guy. They don’t really show the most problematic areas. They put the best foot forward in these pics. Still an awesome guitar just might not be quite perfect enough. I’m on the road for work most of this week but will try to get some pic of the trouble spots when i get home.
 

adorshki

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Yeah, that is my thinking - $1900 is high, but it served its purpose - validated that I do love these D-55’s. Several months ago there was a really nice looking - like mint looking - Reverb D55 from New Hartford for 1900 I offered $1600, as that is where I was at the time. I wish that guitar was still available now, but that guitar does confirm that if I am patient enough, I should find it.
Yes you probably would. As at least a couple of guys mentioned, the evidence is pretty strong that Guilds in general are amazingly consistent in quality even from factory to factory.


.... on the other hand if I could negotiate a deal (which is of course doubtful), I could keep this sweet sounding guitar for awhile and resell it for what I paid and still move forward with the one I find. Ah, but who’s to say it will sell fast. And, I honestly doubt GC will knock much off - they seem less and less open to negotiation everytime I try. Return is probably the best route.
As sympathetic as I am to the possibility of getting enough back from 'em to justify fixing the glitches of a bird-in-the-hand with tone you know you already love, I'm also firmly in that camp that doesn't believe in rewarding less-than-up-front-sellers by keeping the instrument. It just encourages ever-more common deceptive selling practices.
I think I'd only keep it if I was sure it was an extremely hard-to-find model or I just wanted to end the hunt.

I would still be interested in hearing thoughts about New Hartford d55’s - any merit to my concern that they could feel super light and toy like as my Taylor does - I do really like the heft of this westerly D55.
Well "lighter" IS supposed to equate to more lively and resonant, but whether it'll feel "toy-like" is a subjective judgement on your part.
Guild went back and forth between "heavy" and "light" in "build styles", but in general from about mid-'70's to mid '80s were a "heavy" period, then started lightening up again (suspect it had something to do with George Gruhn's tenure followed by Kim Walker's in late '80's- early '90's), then back to "heavy" in Corona ('02-'04), followed by a period of consistent lightening from Tacoma forward.
Tacoma introduced red spruce ("adi") bracing on all models, allowed lighter bracing for the same strength as traditional sitka bracing.
New Hartford did such a redesign that top radius was even changed, made a couple of degrees tighter ("rounder"), this allowed 'em to use mediums gauge strings, compared to lights (.012's) which had been standard on dreads from mid-90's all the way through Tacoma.
Experienced owner feedback was that New Hartfords were the lightest and most resonant of any Guilds ever made, so you're going to have to judge for yourself as to "weight feel".
Also re D50 vs D55:
The original D55's were D50's with F50 necks ordered by Tommy Smothers and labeled as "D50 Special".
After appearing on the Smothers Brothers TV show they were given their own model number in '68 but were only built-to-order until '74.
Over time we've seen owner feedback that there were bracing changes and they didn't always have the same bracing, but usually shaved; and D55's always got AAA tops while D50's were spec'd with AA; the DV52 Dreadnut mentioned was an evolution of the D50 thatdid get AAA tops and scalloped bracing while still keeping the bling to a minimum.
Article on bracing schemes from the late '90's:
http://www.westerlyguildguitars.com/articles/acousticguitarbracing.pdf
There's also a school of thought that believes even headstock shape (mass, more precisely) affects tone, and the D55 always had the wide (and correspondingly heavier) headstock than the DV52 and even some versions of the D50, and they always had 3-pc necks.
The question's also come up as to whether D55's got '"better materials" or construction than D50's.
During Westerly at least, we'd like to think that as a flagship model just a little more care was taken with D55 builds and wood selection than with the more common every day instruments, but I can't recall ever seeing actual statements to that effect from folks that worked there.
But they were small enough to operate that way, which might be part of why they were able to achieve such consistency:
http://www.westerlyguildguitars.com/articles/visionofquality.pdf
Not too hard to imagine going through the wood stocks for a last minute selection for an anticipated run of D55's.
As it was the wood was already pretty darn good because of the way Guild bought it, yet another reason for the consistency:
http://www.westerlyguildguitars.com/articles/woodselection.pdf
 
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TBK711

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Wow! Great information. Thanks for taking the time to share it.
 

adorshki

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Attempting to post pics

https://imgur.com/a/oh7vBtF

I think you should be able to see them at this link?

Again - these are the pics that I requested from the guitar center guy. They don’t really show the most problematic areas. They put the best foot forward in these pics. Still an awesome guitar just might not be quite perfect enough. I’m on the road for work most of this week but will try to get some pic of the trouble spots when i get home.

Just noticed one more thing:
That strap button on the heel is not original (Guild never installed strap buttons on the heels of straight acoustic models in Westerly, that I've seen), and in fact is a value deduct to an appraiser.
Especially in that position.
It just gets in the way there and makes the guitar want to tend to roll around that centerline axis besides.
 

Br1ck

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Almost every time the light weight of a guitar has equated to better tone in an apples to apples comparison, so I don't get your point of view at all. This can be seen in all guitar manufacturers in their product and how they became more heavily built in the 65 to late seventies, so much so that their are a lot of Martins that get lighter bridge plates and thinner bracing, done by the likes of Bryan Kimsey. When I pick up and play a 78-90 Guild dread, the weight is the first thing I notice, and none can touch the tone of my 70 D 35. I'd pick a light guitar every time. Same result when I picked up and played a 68 Epiphone Texan. Nowhere near the guitar my 65 is.

I've only played two New Hartford D 55s. Both were light and both exceptional. Now I'll temper my remarks by saying I've never played any era D 55 I didn't like. Sort of like Guild 12 strings in that respect.
 

TBK711

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My point about weight is really just a matter of aesthetic preference. I really like the feel of a heavier guitar. I’m not arguing anything about tone and weight. In fact, as I said my super light Taylor sounds louder than the D55 (although I like the D55 tone more). Again, I just like the feel of the heavier guitar - not questioning anything about tone and effective guitar construction.
 

adorshki

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My point about weight is really just a matter of aesthetic preference. I really like the feel of a heavier guitar. I’m not arguing anything about tone and weight. In fact, as I said my super light Taylor sounds louder than the D55 (although I like the D55 tone more). Again, I just like the feel of the heavier guitar - not questioning anything about tone and effective guitar construction.
It's come up before that a lot of us are pretty surprised by how good those old "overbuilt" Guilds sound.
Gets back to the consistency thing, somehow they seemed to know how to adjust the builds to sound great whether built like a tank or not.
I do defer to the observations of guys like Br1ck who own examples of guitars I've never experienced, but I find it interesting even he admits he never met a D55 he didn't like the sound of.
My personal experience is that when I got my D25 I immediately realized it was one the lightest steel flat-top guitars I'd ever felt, and yet there are guys here who think even late Westerlys are built "heavily".
Compared to my 2 late Westerlys though, my Corona D40 is a genuine and unapologetic tank that took a full 7 years to start coming out of its shell.
But it finally did.
:glee:
 

Grassdog

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Not for one minute do I buy the argument that lighter construction produces better tone. All too often, I have played one of those heavy "built like a tank" Guilds and they just blow away a like-kind model made in a different era with lighter construction. How is that? I just think there is an abundance of other factors that go into guitar construction, most of which I'm not smart enough to understand (maybe bracing, how the tops are "tuned" so to speak)
 
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