GAD40 Dilemma

chazmo

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Ralf posted this a while back in this thread (http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?182892-Another-GAD-serial-number-thread):

Sorry to say but there is absolutely no relationship between that GAD41584 number and year 2009 that you can use in a serial number list. You actually don't need a serial number list for GADs! It's all printed inside the GAD! The real manufacturing date is actually coded in the manufacturing number that is internally stamped on the base of the heel block! So you need to use a lamp and a mirror most probably.
FMIC's hotline just doesn't know that...We actually discussed this quite a few times here already.

The GAD manufacturing info is not on the label (that's just a factory number) but on the neck block inside the body!
All GAD instruments are stamped with a 10 digit internal manufacturing number located inside at the base of the heel block. This number embodies production information about the instrument.
As an example, we’ll use a random number 1104330026.
The first two digits of this number identify the production year. In this case, 11 would stand for 2011.
The second two digits identify the production month. In this case, 04 would stand for April.
The next two digits, 33, are of no significance and are an internal number used by the vendor to identify their order number.
The last four digits identify the unit number of the order. In this case, 26 would stand for the 26th instrument made to the 33rd order.

Let us know what the number in your guitar is, so we can cross check if the info is correct. If your guitar is from May 2009 the 10 digit number should start with 0905xxxxxx.
 

D30Man

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Thanks a ton Chaz.. That jives with everything I have read.. Had to get a in a funky position with the phone flashlight and the magic number iiiiiiiiiiiiis:

061211039

It would appear as though she was crafted around Christmastime 2006..
 

Rayk

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Congrats nice looking guitar , I noticed the top as the others did .
Very cool .
 

cutrofiano

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...noticed the top as the others did .
Very cool .
I can see nice cross silking.
And stripes in longitudinal direction I have no explanation for.
And I can see a slight difference in brightness at the bottom end, both sides of the bookmatch middle seam.
Does this alternate when you are looking from the other side / turn the guitar upside down ?

We have discussed here a couple of times where GREE sources it's tonewood from (Canada).
Supposing the GREE factory workers have not been replaced all at the same time, I wonder how quality differences between early and later GAD guitars (within relatively short time) could be explained.

I personally suspect that differences exist mainly in the eye / ear of the buyers...
Just the way I believe my GAD F-150RCE with its block inlay fretboard with bindings is prettier than the younger Westerly version :apple:

Moritz
 
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D30Man

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I can see nice cross silking.
And stripes in longitudinal direction I have no explanation for.
And I can see a slight difference in brightness at the bottom end, both sides of the bookmatch middle seam.
Does this alternate when you are looking from the other side / turn the guitar upside down ?

We have discussed here a couple of times where GREE sources it's tonewood from (Canada).
Supposing the GREE factory workers have not been replaced all at the same time, I wonder how quality differences between early and later GAD guitars (within relatively short time) could be explained.

I personally suspect that differences exist mainly in the eye / ear of the buyers...
Just the way I believe my GAD F-150RCE with its block inlay fretboard with bindings is prettier than the younger Westerly version :apple:

Moritz

Moritz I believe a big difference came in the form of cost cutting measures as the most noticeable differences from early GAD series to GAD 100 series was the removal of maple binding ( which I love ), chesterfield logo, bone nut and saddle to name a few things.. It could also be that the quality of the woods changed.. Not sure. I could speculate but that is all it would be... speculation.. I can say that I have owned early GAD and GAD 100 series guitars. I can say that I liked my GAD25 better than my GAD125 but I will say the GAD125 was still a damn fine instrument as are a lot of the instruments in the line up.. I would also imagine your GAD F-150 is a beast of a guitar.. I have gone back and forth over the years on MIC vs USA.. It is a personal struggle, but I can say some of the best instruments I have owned have been MIC Guilds, Blueridge and Eastman guitars.. They compete at such a high level for the price point.. But I will say Blueridge and Eastman prices seem to be climbing.. Sorry for the veer.. This is such a juicy topic for me..
 

adorshki

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We have discussed here a couple of times where GREE sources it's tonewood from (Canada).
Supposing the GREE factory workers have not been replaced all at the same time, I wonder how quality differences between early and later GAD guitars (within relatively short time) could be explained.
I don't recall that, but I do recall that Fender remained in control of the sourcing and selecting in any case.
But perhaps it's just a semantic issue: you mean "the factory", I mean "the buyer".
And even without having ever heard any of 'em, I'm inclined to believe that multiple reports of differences between the 2 generations, from what I would consider as credible sources here, has to have some basis in fact, and would ascribe it to the spec changes as D30Man mentions.
Who knows if other little design tweaks came into play like with bracing?
I agree with you, pretty sure it wouldn't be due to a massive sudden labor turnover.
 

chazmo

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Tim Shaw (Fender) oversaw most/all of the changes from the original GADs to the 100-series. He spoke to us at one of the Let's Meet Guild events and what I remember was that wood sourcing and selection was part of Fender's domain. I.e., it wasn't the Chinese factory that was independently buying the wood. As for the guitar designs, given Tim's involvement, I suspect that was all Fender corporate, and probably in large part Tim himself. But, I'm inferring here; I don't remember Tim saying explicitly that he (or anyone else) did the designs. Tim did say he'd spent a lot of time over there, and that was pretty reassuring!

All that said, I felt (personally) that we were getting a little bit of spin during that talk. I don't know how the other LMG attendees felt. I remember that Fender's big cheese head of acoustics (Paul Meisenzahl) was there on the panel too, and even though they were all trying to give us a lot of information, those guys didn't really want to talk about Chinese factory policies with us, and probably for good reason.

Anyway, I guess my only real point here is to say that Fender takes all the praise/blame here for these changes (and, hey, for the original GADs themselves). I don't think the factory(s) made independent decisions.
 
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cutrofiano

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I don't think the factory(s) made independent decisions.
Thank you for everyone's input.
I am very shure GREE never does indipendent decisions.
I have been talkig to a Swiss guitar builder a while ago who have their acoustics produced at GREE (I had discoverd this myself when I saw the quality tag).
After his opinion GREE is THE guitar builder in Asia that will pruduce precisely what you ask them to and have alle the means to fullfill any customer's demands.

I had reported here that I had personal and very kind email contact with the sales manager from the Canadian tonewood supplier who he said were "most likely" the deliverer of my GAD F-150 RCE's top.
It was not me who had dug out his address but someone here who had read US customs declerations.
Not being aware of the topic then I didn't ask him if he knew about any changes in quality specs within the GAD era (and I wouldn't ask today as I couldn't expect an answer).

Moritz
 

bobouz

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The multiple short vertical lines in this top are very similar to the top of my 2014 Gibson J-15, which also has a fair amount of cross-silking. It was one of the first J-15s produced, and has a custom-shop label, which I've never seen on another natural-finish J-15. I've wondered if the custom shop aspect of the guitar was this lovely top, which also carries a more light-brownish hue.

Regardless of where the top came from on the J-15, it is incredibly responsive from top to bottom - notes literally leap off of it. If your GAD F-40 has any similar characteristics, it's gotta be a winner!
 

adorshki

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After his opinion GREE is THE guitar builder in Asia that will pruduce precisely what you ask them to and have alle the means to fullfill any customer's demands.
I'm reminded of an image posted from long ago (I believe it was Ralf) of a shop floor showing Blueridge, Eastman (I think), and GAD headstocks all on the same floor in adjacent racks.
It was our first clue about where the GAD's were made, as Fender wasn't talking.
(Which I can understand.)

I had reported here that I had personal and very kind email contact with the sales manager from the Canadian tonewood supplier who he said were "most likely" the deliverer of my GAD F-150 RCE's top.
It was not me who had dug out his address but someone here who had read US customs declerations.
That does ring a very vague bell now.
Not being aware of the topic then I didn't ask him if he knew about any changes in quality specs within the GAD era (and I wouldn't ask today as I couldn't expect an answer).
Moritz
I'd be surprised if there were actually quality spec changes, I suspect the reported perceived sonic differences could be easily due to simple construction spec changes.
 
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adorshki

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Like: Let's make the chinese fill it up with sticky rice :laughing:

Moritz

Upgrade from papier mache
:glee:

(you ever tried to break down sticky rice once it gets hard?):

guitarra-de-carton-de-antonio-de-torres.jpg

1862 Antonio Torres papier-mâché guitar.
 

Grassdog

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I find it ironic that we have evolved from the USA made vs. MIC Guild discussion to now debating whether first or second generation MIC Guilds are better.
 

chazmo

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It's a bit ironic, but not surprising to me. Comparing the MIC models with each other is a better conversation than that other one, and it's one that we can have here.
 

Mark WW

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I find it ironic that we have evolved from the USA made vs. MIC Guild discussion to now debating whether first or second generation MIC Guilds are better.

I am surprised anyone would find it ironic. It is more iconic. Guild that is. And the whole where it is made (Not looking for an argument) is so old at this point other than for informational purposes. I remember folks worrying over Gretsch pro-line and deriding it for not being made in the US and dumping on the Korean (Electromatic) made products. Well the Pro Line at the time had been made for quite a while in Japan. Country of origin is something that will quite likely continue to change as corporations seek to maximize their bottom line by always scanning for the cheapest (practical) labor source. I love Guilds wherever they are made. And I am happy to see more discussion on the GAD's and Westerly's because with today's and the foreseeable future's economic conditions these imports probably help keep many guitar makers afloat.

And I hope Guild stays afloat and healthy!
 
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Grassdog

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I guess my point is we've now created a debate about two so-called generations of guitars of the same brand, that are made in the same country, and even in the same factory (GREE). So now owners of a Westerly series MIC guitar (or who are considering purchasing one of these) are hearing opinions that their choice may less desirable than the GAD series, and GAD owners have experienced a full role reversal (now more appreciated than before). For me, anyway, I didn't see that coming.
 
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