Bluebird Colours

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Hello everyone, I was wondering if it would be possible to discuss the colour options for the Westerly Bluesbird guitars? I notice for instance there seem to be more than one type of red available. Was this part of the catalogue, or were a number of Bluesbird guitars produced in custom colours?
 

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Hello everyone, I was wondering if it would be possible to discuss the colour options for the Westerly Bluesbird guitars? I notice for instance there seem to be more than one type of red available. Was this part of the catalogue, or were a number of Bluesbird guitars produced in custom colours?

It really depends on the years you're interested in. The '70s, '80s, '90s, and '00s all had Bluesbirds and there are at least three different major types that I can think of off of the top of my head. Narrrow it down for us and we'll dazzle you with knowledge.

If you haven't looked yet, it might be buried in one of these. I write so much I forget what's where.

http://gadsguilds.com

Relevant probabilities:

1970s: http://www.gad.net/Blog/2016/10/31/guild-1974-bluesbird-m75/

1980s: http://www.gad.net/Blog/2017/09/12/guild-brian-setzer-bluesbird/

1990s: http://www.gad.net/Blog/2016/07/17/1997-guild-bluesbird-guitar/

2010s: http://www.gad.net/Blog/2016/08/27/2016-guild-newark-street-bluesbird-guitar/

Comparison: http://www.gad.net/Blog/2017/01/27/guild-bluesbird-bake-off/

Sorry I don't have a '00s one reviewed. I have a nice one from the Fender Custom Shop, but I've been slackin' on the blog since I'm busy writing stuff that makes money. :)
 
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Hello GAD, and thank you for your response. I am primarily considering single cut Bluesbirds and Blues 90's built in the 1990s and early 2000s. I have read quite a few of your reviews , and I am very impressed by their thoroughness, and also your high-res photos. I have been wondering about differentiating between the standard colour options and the custom colours. As an example, I've seen red Bluesbirds described as, cherry red, transparent red and wine red. Are these three names differentiating between three separate shades of red offered by Guild, or are they description terms coined by owners and vendors? Also, it would be great to see estimates in regards to production figures and colours. From the little research I have done, it seems like natural is the most common option for Bluesbirds, and a dark red for Blues 90s. I would be very interested to hear more definitive answers from someone with more expertise.
 

fronobulax

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Just a comment - at times throughout Guild's history the same color/finish has had different "official names". There are also colors that were mentioned in a catalog that no one remembers seeing and guitars that have a finish that was not mentioned in a catalog.
 

SFIV1967

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As an example, I've seen red Bluesbirds described as, cherry red, transparent red and wine red.
I don't think there was a "wine red" as official color. Not all colors were used for all models, I know for instance of Transparent Red or Woodgrain Red or Torino Red or Fiesta Red, well see below:

A Blues 90 in the 2001 pricelist was offered in 859 Black Cherry, 839 Ebony Transparent and 860 Emerald Green Transparent.
The "normal" Bluesbird was offered in 2001 in 806 Black, 821 Natural, 853 Gold Metallic, 838 Red Transparent
The AAA Flame Maple Bluesbird was offered in 2001 in 852 Tobacco Sunburst, 830 Cherry Sunburst, 820 Amber

Those the last 2 digits of this 800 numbers are FMIC color codes, so only apply to the time after FMIC took over Westerly. (The first digit of the three digit code tells if the instrument is offered without case, with standard case, or with deluxe case.)

Just as example, available in 2001 were the following option codes for all Guild guitars, but depending on the model:
_01 Blonde _27 Sapphire Blue _38 Red Transparent _58 Torino Red
_06 Black _29 Claret _39 Ebony Transparent _59 Black Cherry
_12 Tennessee Orange _30 Cherry Sunburst _40 Fiesta Red _60 Emerald Green Transparent
_15 Chestnut _33 Metallic Blue _50 Opulent Brown _67 Honey Blonde
_20 Amber _34 Autumn Burst _52 Tobacco Sunburst
_21 Natural _37 Antique Burst _53 Gold Metallic

So this is only 2001! There is probably a ton of other colors depending on the year...

Ralf
 

GAD

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In the '97 catalog the colors listed for electric guitars were:

01 Blonde
06 Black
20 Amber
21 Natural
30 Cherry Sunburst
38 Transparent Red (listed as 30 in the '97 and 38 in the '98)
32 Tobacco Sunburst
37 Antique Sunburst
78 Gold
80 White

As for production numbers, the only one who might know is Hans and he generally doesn't share that type of stuff.
 
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Thank you all for the rapid replies, I appreciate it. Ralf, your examples from the 2001 catalogue suggest their were four types of red offered in that year. Is it possible that these names may not actually denote separate shades, as fronobulax suggests? The 1997 catalogue seems to be more straightforward, with transparent red available. The AAA range models seem to be thinner on the ground, is this true?
 

adorshki

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Thank you all for the rapid replies, I appreciate it. Ralf, your examples from the 2001 catalogue suggest their were four types of red offered in that year.
Is it possible that these names may not actually denote separate shades, as fronobulax suggests?
Welcome Semitone, and I apologize for the "butt-inski": "NO", in a given model year each color was distinct shade, as evidenced by the color chip chart in the '97 Guild Gallery #1 and the 2001 Fender Frontline catalog.
Torino Red and Fiesta are very close but still different, Transparent Red and Cherry were very different shades, but I have a very strong suspicion that what Guild simply called "Red" on very early ('87) Songbird Customs (A derivative of the Bluesbird) was in fact the same as Fender's "Torino" or "Fiesta", although Fender didn't own Guild yet.
"Black Cherry" was very unusual, looking almost exactly as its namesake, or even darker.
It does appear that after Fender acquired Guild they actually added colors to Guild's selection from their own broad range of available finishes, but typically there were 2-3 colors listed as "Standard" finishes on a given model, and those could change from year-to-year, although certain popular finishes seemed to remain available and are very commonly seen.
BUT in general ANY finish color could be special ordered on a model it wasn't standard on.
GAD's '97 listing was for all Guild finishes that year, but only a few were "standard" on any given model, and those were normally shown in the price list, that's where Ralf gets his info about standard Bluesbird vs Blues 90 colors for '01.
What we're lacking is a comprehensive set of price pages for the Fender era that would outline how color selections may have changed from year-to-year, although from observation they seemed to get "flashier" around '98 through the close of Westerly
The 1997 catalogue seems to be more straightforward, with transparent red available. The AAA range models seem to be thinner on the ground, is this true?
Tough call as there's no way to truly distinguish 'em by s/n, only by the quality of the top.
The only other "guide" was that in the '01 catalog at least, there were only the 3 colors listed as "standard" for AAA's, as far as I can tell we have no idea if those changed over the course of production, and the two resident experts here, Ralf and GAD, are citing the only readily available 2 sources I know of myself.
And we can only get model year from the s/n, not finish code.
The difficulty is further compounded in that some of 'em are obviously AAA stripey flame maple tops and others are heavily quilted but have a AAA color.
If you haven't seen it already, I suggest scanning the Bluesbird owner's thread for a great overview of both standard colors and examples of "??" colors and models:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...luesbirds-Owners-amp-Long-Time-Borrowers-List
Even Blues 90's which are readily identifiable by their fretboards are seen with colors that weren't "Standard" for 'em in '01 at least.
So were they special ordered or was that color standard for their model year?
I'm not even sure if Hans Moust could tell us.
Final note as somebody mentioned already, I think:
Just because Guild printed out their catalogs and price lists doesn't mean they felt bound to 'em as if by law...best as we can tell they did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted, all covered by the simple disclaimer "Specs subject to change without notice"
:friendly_wink:
 
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GAD

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Yeah, and don't forget that people selling used guitars often have no idea what they're talking about so when you see a guitar listed as Transparent super-mega red with AAAAAAAAAA flame you learn to identify that that was never a thing.

I've seen AAAA AAAAA flame advertised. Gotta pump the hype machine! !!!**!*!*11RARE****!!!

As for numbers produced, I don't know why people get so wrapped up in that unless it's for fuel for the hype machine. I have some rare Guilds - 1 of ~200 (Bladerunner), one of ~300 (BHM1), etc. They get big money. I have one that's 1 of only 20 made (Nightbird DX). Nobody cares about that one, though, maybe because it wasn't in a Run DMC video or endorsed by Brian May. :).

So far as I'm aware, the only one that knows for sure is Hans, and he ain't talkin'.
 

Nuuska

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Yeah, and don't forget that people selling used guitars often have no idea what they're talking about so when you see a guitar listed as Transparent super-mega red with AAAAAAAAAA flame you learn to identify that that was never a thing.

I've seen AAAA AAAAA flame advertised. Gotta pump the hype machine! !!!**!*!*11RARE****!!!

As for numbers produced, I don't know why people get so wrapped up in that unless it's for fuel for the hype machine. I have some rare Guilds - 1 of ~200 (Bladerunner), one of ~300 (BHM1), etc. They get big money. I have one that's 1 of only 20 made (Nightbird DX). Nobody cares about that one, though, maybe because it wasn't in a Run DMC video or endorsed by Brian May. :).

So far as I'm aware, the only one that knows for sure is Hans, and he ain't talkin'.



Hello

I like it when Hans is not talking - because I really do not need anything like that to stir my mind when I think what kind guitar I would get next. Rarity is for collectors - and sadly it often is off music makers.

There could be someone real talented eyeing a beautiful good player guitar - that in his/her hands would be a blessing to people - but because it is "one-of-a-kind-colour" example - some collector pays double and it ends in a vault somewhere - never be played again.

On classical instrument side - collectors often lend their Stradivaris etc to talented musicians, so the instrument is in good use. On non-classical guitars probably not.


As for "collector guitars" - Right now I am trying veeeery carefully get hold of a non-Guild electric, that has been hanging for years in local music store. My favourite tv-series-person played one like that - different colour - this is better for me . . .
 

GAD

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Hello

I like it when Hans is not talking - because I really do not need anything like that to stir my mind when I think what kind guitar I would get next. Rarity is for collectors - and sadly it often is off music makers.

There could be someone real talented eyeing a beautiful good player guitar - that in his/her hands would be a blessing to people - but because it is "one-of-a-kind-colour" example - some collector pays double and it ends in a vault somewhere - never be played again.

On classical instrument side - collectors often lend their Stradivaris etc to talented musicians, so the instrument is in good use. On non-classical guitars probably not.


As for "collector guitars" - Right now I am trying veeeery carefully get hold of a non-Guild electric, that has been hanging for years in local music store. My favourite tv-series-person played one like that - different colour - this is better for me . . .

Part of me agrees with this. Being a collector of sorts, it's not so much the collectors that bug me but the flippers, but then I guess the flippers prosper because of collectors, so no matter how you slice it the low-funds musician loses.

There have been cases of very rare and expensive guitars being loaned to players. I seem to recall that being the case with at least a couple of 1959 'burst Les Pauls. There's also a very cool story of the guitarist for the band Greta Van Fleet having been given his '61 SG by the owner of Chicago Music Exchange.
 

adorshki

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My favourite tv-series-person played one like that - different colour - this is better for me . . .

Burney+with+Guitar.png

Floyd Burney?
 

walrus

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Hello

I like it when Hans is not talking - because I really do not need anything like that to stir my mind when I think what kind guitar I would get next. Rarity is for collectors - and sadly it often is off music makers.

There could be someone real talented eyeing a beautiful good player guitar - that in his/her hands would be a blessing to people - but because it is "one-of-a-kind-colour" example - some collector pays double and it ends in a vault somewhere - never be played again.

On classical instrument side - collectors often lend their Stradivaris etc to talented musicians, so the instrument is in good use. On non-classical guitars probably not.


As for "collector guitars" - Right now I am trying veeeery carefully get hold of a non-Guild electric, that has been hanging for years in local music store. My favourite tv-series-person played one like that - different colour - this is better for me . . .


I also agree with this. Hans told me that my 1984 D64 is "more rare than I thought", i.e. there are fewer than the publicized 193 (based on serial numbers). And of course I should wait until Vol. II of the Guild Bible for the final tally!

But I played that guitar exclusively for over 30 years - rarity be damned - made to be played! I had no idea it was rare when I bought it - not until I joined LTG and became "enlightened". But I had already played it for 22 years by then! Will the years of playing it cost me if/when I sell it? Absolutely. Do I care? Nope. Well worth it for the enjoyment it brought!

walrus
 

fronobulax

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On classical instrument side - collectors often lend their Stradivaris etc to talented musicians, so the instrument is in good use. On non-classical guitars probably not.

The Smithsonian has a collection of fine/rare/instruments and at least once a year they invite accomplished and professional players to use them in a concert.

There have been cases of very rare and expensive guitars being loaned to players. I seem to recall that being the case with at least a couple of 1959 'burst Les Pauls. There's also a very cool story of the guitarist for the band Greta Van Fleet having been given his '61 SG by the owner of Chicago Music Exchange.

Somehow the first thing that comes to mind is the rare Martin that was destroyed on a movie set...
 
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