OGD - F-30 in need of TLC

ClydeTower

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
585
Reaction score
7
Location
Montreal
Guess I'm a bit puzzled. None of these mid '60s beauties look anything like what I've always considered to be the F-30's "mini-jumbo" shape version - which I believe first appeared in late '72, and for sure in '73 with both the F-30 & F-30R. These are clearly distinguished by a very round bottom (measuring 15-3/8" on my '73 F-30R) and deep lower bout (4-7/8"), combined with a much smaller upper bout (a hair over 11") - truly mimicking the miniaturized shape of a jumbo Guild or Gibson.

The two '60s examples above appear to have some very slight differences in curvature, but both more closely resemble a Martin 000 shape - and I'm guessing their body measurements would be virtually identical.

Imho, it seems like a misnomer to be calling one of them a mini-jumbo shape. That said, I believe the world will keep turning!

You're right Bobouz, the "mini-jumbo" F30 I've always known is the early 70's model... I thought that the F30 had gone from the Hoboken OM body style to the Westerly Mini-Jumbo at that time. That's why MJ's 66 has got me puzzled. Its kind of a mix between both versions...

The best of both worlds!

#Hobokesterly
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Great observations Al. I’m curious, if Guild moved to the Westerly shop around 66-67, could it be that during the transition, some F30s were built at the Hoboken shop and some at the Westerly shop which could explain the discrenpencies?
No, because this shift in '65 preceded even the purchase (or lease?) of Westerly (in '66) let alone the move of production.
First guitars out of Westerly were M20's in '67.
This doesn't mean they didn't build the same model in both locations, I don't know, although logistically it doesn't seem to make sense: one would think at the vey least they'd want all body bucks in one place, as well as any other stages peculiar to a given instrument.
I did have a chance to check the book this AM, though, and lo and behold, the F112 was actually introduced in '66, it's just not visible by the serial number records.
So I think it's another piece of circumstantial evidence that might explain why the body shape change occurred in '65:
Maybe they were already contemplating F-112 production, and adding bucks for increased capacity.
Hans mentioned in the book that 2500 F30's were built between '65 and '69, implying it was a hefty production boom for 'em.
The F112 was based on F30 specs but a little deeper.
That could have been accommodated by existing F30 bucks because they actually varied in depth even for the same model, but again that's just possible supporting evidence, no confirmation I know of unless Hans chimes in.
Or maybe they added new bucks for the capacity reason alone, and introduced the new outline at the same time.
I still suspect what really happened is that the old F30 bucks got used for F112's until the early '70's though, because they had the "old" outline when introduced and only got the new outline later, as I mentioned earlier.
Mavuser can confirm that, he posted pics of his own a couple of months back..
Hans mentioned in the book that 2500 F30's were built between '65 and '69, implying it was a hefty production boom for 'em.
 
Last edited:

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Guess I'm a bit puzzled. None of these mid '60s beauties look anything like what I've always considered to be the F-30's "mini-jumbo" shape version - which I believe first appeared in late '72, and for sure in '73 with both the F-30 & F-30R. These are clearly distinguished by a very round bottom (measuring 15-3/8" on my '73 F-30R) and deep lower bout (4-7/8"), combined with a much smaller upper bout (a hair over 11") - truly mimicking the miniaturized shape of a jumbo Guild or Gibson.
Actually the book says the F30R was introduced with a 15-1/2" lower bout as opposed to the standard 15" of the F30.
Suspect maybe that crept over to regular F30's over time?
*EDIT*:
Actually I now realize that just because it says the F30R had 15-1/2" lower bout, doesn't mean the F30 didn't already have it before the F30R was introduced.
I've learned I've gotta be very careful about reading stuff into Han's statements.
I know what you mean about "mini-jumbo", though, I was sure Clyde was using the terms (including "OM") casually and went along with it for ease of conversation in the known assumptions of this thread.
And I think you're right, looking at images I can see the more pronounced difference in the mid '70's outline when I shift the image search to '75.
Like this little jewel (courtesy of Hans who's posted it here before):
F30Rw_F50trim.jpg

Post #4, here:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?177158-F30R-with-F50-style-neck-and-deluxe-trimmings.
And finally, the later strip tuners?
Confirmed as Japanese in "the Book" but no maker ID'd there.
:friendly_wink:
 
Last edited:

ClydeTower

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
585
Reaction score
7
Location
Montreal
I know what you mean about "mini-jumbo", though, I was sure Clyde was using the terms (including "OM") casually and went along with it for ease of conversation in the known assumptions of this thread.

Exactly, I used the terms loosely to highlight the subtle differences in shape I could perceive between 65 and 66 to avoid having to describe them in detail. I'm still fascinated how Guild could manage to modify a body style during the same production run and why they would chose to do so. The "quirkiness" of it all makes these old vintage Guilds even more unique and desirable to me... Wouldn't mind picking up a 60's D40 at some point.
 

hansmoust

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
9,201
Reaction score
3,504
Location
Netherlands
I did have a chance to check the book this AM, though, and lo and behold, the F112 was actually introduced in '66, it's just not visible by the serial number records.

Already posted this some time ago, but the F-212XL was introduced in 1966 and the F-112 in 1968. It was reversed in the 'headline' of page 129 (of 'The Guild Guitar Book'), but it should be clear when you read the rest of the text on that page and the price lists in the back of the book.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Already posted this some time ago, but the F-212XL was introduced in 1966 and the F-112 in 1968. It was reversed in the 'headline' of page 129 (of 'The Guild Guitar Book'), but it should be clear when you read the rest of the text on that page and the price lists in the back of the book.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

THANK YOU!
Yes, I was in a hurry when I was looking for the page this AM, (I keep the book at home, not here where I post from) then went to the tuning pegs.
 

mjurban

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Tale of the tape

I put the tape on my ‘66 F-30. Here are the numbers.

Widths:
LB: 15 1/16”
UB: 11 11/16”
Waist: 9 3/16”

Overall length: 40 5/16”

Scale: 24 1/2”

Depths:
LB: 4 1/8”
UB: 3 5/8”

It goes to Fixit’s shop next week.

Mike
 

D30Man

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,949
Reaction score
998
Location
Rockwall, TX
Guild Total
5
For those interested ...
44GGGT3.jpg

OvQkO8I.jpg

rzDvfl9.jpg

8KqzGWY.jpg

tb1KirA.jpg

nmeoG14.jpg

Y0E3D6j.jpg

Welcome to the forum mjurban! As you can see this is a place of knowledge and resources - especially as it relates to Guild brand.
Man she is a dynamite looking specimen. Good luck on getting her to some former glory!!!
 

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,442
Reaction score
8,956
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
I noticed also, both guitars have different shapes, the 66 has the mini-jumbo shape and the 65 has the classic OM shape. Did the shape change in 66 or were both models produced at the same time?
It is only an optical illusion of different angles of the pictures. The F-30 body shape was the same from about 1959 to 1969/70 with 15 1/8 lower bout and 4 1/8" thick body. In 1970 that changed to 15 1/2" lower bout and 4 7/8" thick body. I used a picture of a 1962 one, a 1968 one and a 1970 one with the exact angle of the picture and when you put them on top of each other (electronically making them transparent) they fit 100% in shape. It's hard to find guitar pictures with the same exact angle of the picture.
Ralf
 
Last edited:

mjurban

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
An update for those interested ...

I took the guitar to Jacobs Custom Guitars this morning, and left it. Had a nice chat with Tom and Dave. The news is better than I had hoped. The cracked bridge may be repairable. There’s a loose brace, and a crack along the pick guard mentioned earlier in this thread. Tom is going to address those three issues, and then once the top is stable, see if he can get a decent setup. At that point, a neck reset may or may not be necessary. We’ll see in a couple weeks.

Also met some friends for lunch on the coast and had an excellent oyster po’boy, then visited a microbrewery we’d heard about. All in all, a fine day.

To be continued ...

Mike
 

walrus

Reverential Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
23,956
Reaction score
8,019
Location
Massachusetts
I took the guitar to Jacobs Custom Guitars this morning, and left it. Had a nice chat with Tom and Dave. The news is better than I had hoped. The cracked bridge may be repairable. There’s a loose brace, and a crack along the pick guard mentioned earlier in this thread. Tom is going to address those three issues, and then once the top is stable, see if he can get a decent setup. At that point, a neck reset may or may not be necessary. We’ll see in a couple weeks.

Also met some friends for lunch on the coast and had an excellent oyster po’boy, then visited a microbrewery we’d heard about. All in all, a fine day.

To be continued ...

Mike

This is what I would call excellent progress!! :applause:

walrus
 

mjurban

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
It’s home!

Actually, it’s been home since Friday. Forgive me for taking a couple days to post an update, but it’s been really hard to put down. That in itself is probably all you need to hear.

Tom was able to repair the cracked bridge, rather than replace it. Also glued down a loose brace, and repaired a small crack in the top along the pick guard. It did not require a neck reset.

It came back nice and shiny, fresh off the buffing wheel, frets polished, and nicely set up. It sounds and plays beautifully. I’ve been playing it for a couple days now, trading off with two other guitars, and I’m extremely happy with how it has turned out.

Tom was able to get a good setup without a neck reset, but as a result some of the parameters are close to the limits. String height above the top is about 3/8” at the sound hole, less than that at the bridge. Saddle height is barely 1/16” at the bass and treble ends, and the pin holes are slotted to increase the break angle. However, the guitar plays and sounds as well as it ever has, and it’s a big win to avoid a neck reset.

I’ll have a few pics later today.

Regards,
Mike
 

mjurban

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
... and a big shout to Tom and Dave at Jacobs Custom Guitars in Merritt Island, FL., who did this work. Nice folks, excellent work, timely completion, reasonable price.

Mike
 

D30Man

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,949
Reaction score
998
Location
Rockwall, TX
Guild Total
5
Actually, it’s been home since Friday. Forgive me for taking a couple days to post an update, but it’s been really hard to put down. That in itself is probably all you need to hear.

Tom was able to repair the cracked bridge, rather than replace it. Also glued down a loose brace, and repaired a small crack in the top along the pick guard. It did not require a neck reset.

It came back nice and shiny, fresh off the buffing wheel, frets polished, and nicely set up. It sounds and plays beautifully. I’ve been playing it for a couple days now, trading off with two other guitars, and I’m extremely happy with how it has turned out.

Tom was able to get a good setup without a neck reset, but as a result some of the parameters are close to the limits. String height above the top is about 3/8” at the sound hole, less than that at the bridge. Saddle height is barely 1/16” at the bass and treble ends, and the pin holes are slotted to increase the break angle. However, the guitar plays and sounds as well as it ever has, and it’s a big win to avoid a neck reset.

I’ll have a few pics later today.

Regards,
Mike

Awesome news Mike! Any time you can avoid a reset that is a good day fo sho!!! You had her brought back to glory sir!
 

Rayk

Enlightened Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
5,769
Reaction score
1,172
Actually, it’s been home since Friday. Forgive me for taking a couple days to post an update, but it’s been really hard to put down. That in itself is probably all you need to hear.

Tom was able to repair the cracked bridge, rather than replace it. Also glued down a loose brace, and repaired a small crack in the top along the pick guard. It did not require a neck reset.

It came back nice and shiny, fresh off the buffing wheel, frets polished, and nicely set up. It sounds and plays beautifully. I’ve been playing it for a couple days now, trading off with two other guitars, and I’m extremely happy with how it has turned out.

Tom was able to get a good setup without a neck reset, but as a result some of the parameters are close to the limits. String height above the top is about 3/8” at the sound hole, less than that at the bridge. Saddle height is barely 1/16” at the bass and treble ends, and the pin holes are slotted to increase the break angle. However, the guitar plays and sounds as well as it ever has, and it’s a big win to avoid a neck reset.

I’ll have a few pics later today.

Regards,
Mike

Awesome 😊
 

Stuball48

Senior Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Oct 22, 2017
Messages
4,736
Reaction score
2,534
Location
Dickson, TN
DA -- Tom and Dave were great to deal with and quality work at a reasonable price. That is what we believe on LTG. That last sentence could be part of the chorus on a song written about "Jacobs Custom Guitars."
 

Br1ck

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,671
Reaction score
1,414
Location
San Jose, Ca
Just for reference, I spent around $1200 Nor Cal market rate to fix my D 35. Neck reset, refret, new nut, saddle and a NOS bridge sourced from Hans Moust. Plus lacquer on the neck to seal the sanded off bare wood neck. It had a small soundhole crack from the pickguard.

I had bought the D 35 as a basket case knowing I'd spend more than it was worth. I've never regretted it. And I had 0 emotional attachment.
 
Top