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Thread: '61 M65 Freshman Rebuild - Bridge Help!

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuuska View Post
    Hello

    Reducing by two frets vs rescaling - what really is the difference?
    Reducing by two frets is like using a capo. Rescaling changes the spacing formula for distance between frets at locations along the fretboard. ......I think I got that right! ?

    But one wonders: if the shorter scale is set up exactly the same as the scale starting at say fret 1 or 2.. then I guess it would be the same distances right?
    Good question.
    Last edited by swiveltung; 12-25-2018 at 08:32 PM.

  2. #12
    Many (most?) M-65's are short scale, but some are a 'full' 24.75". FWIW, the locations of the bridges of my 3/4 scale 1964 M-64 and my 2014 NS M-75 are different. Neither are pinned to the top, but when adjusted for good intonation the bridge on the M-65 ends up about 1/2" closer to the tailpiece.
    DTC

    1958 T-100, 1964 S-50, 1964 M-65, 1976 S-300 (bolt-on neck), 1977 D-25, 1977 S-300, 1979 S-300A, 1983 S-25, 1984 Detonator, 1987 Nightbird (spruce top), 1988 D-15, 2001 Blues90, 2002 Bluesbird P90, 2014 Aristocrat

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DThomasC View Post
    Many (most?) M-65's are short scale, but some are a 'full' 24.75". FWIW, the locations of the bridges of my 3/4 scale 1964 M-64 and my 2014 NS M-75 are different. Neither are pinned to the top, but when adjusted for good intonation the bridge on the M-65 ends up about 1/2" closer to the tailpiece.
    Fret spacing the same or not... if you align those 2 at the 12th fret?

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by swiveltung View Post
    Fret spacing the same or not... if you align those 2 at the 12th fret?
    If I understand your question:

    M-65
    Nut to 12th fret: 11.375" (22.75 scale length)
    high E nut to saddle: 23.00"
    Low E nut to saddle: 23.13"

    M-75
    Nut to 12th fret: 12.375" (24.75 scale length)
    High E nut to saddle: 24.80"
    Low E nut to saddle: 24.94"

    So it appears that my M-65 requires a little more compensation than my M-75, but not 0.5" worth. I probably put heavier strings on it to make the string tension more familiar. I suppose I could tune it a couple half-steps higher instead, but that seems even more unfamiliar.
    DTC

    1958 T-100, 1964 S-50, 1964 M-65, 1976 S-300 (bolt-on neck), 1977 D-25, 1977 S-300, 1979 S-300A, 1983 S-25, 1984 Detonator, 1987 Nightbird (spruce top), 1988 D-15, 2001 Blues90, 2002 Bluesbird P90, 2014 Aristocrat

  5. #15
    Senior Member
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    If the nut to 12 fret distance E to e (i e., Octave) are different between the 3/4 and standard M65 then my assumption is incorrect and the guitars scaled. When I look at a M65 3/4 the neck has two less frets than the standard length guitar so I assumed that was the only difference. Under that scenerio the nominal distance from nut to bridge would be around 24 5/8".
    So if scaled down to 3/4 then my mistake. If just a reduction in frets than the the nut to bridge distance doesn't change.

    Sorry for confusion.
    M

  6. #16
    One more spoon stirring the soup.

    Scaling the nut-bridge distance without scaling the body or moving bridge location is like using capo - thus resulting two frets less in total scale. if the guitar is available both full & 3/4 scales, then it should have two different bodies & pickguards to be optimal.
    First good guitar - GUILD Duane Eddy 400 - I was 3rd owner - still regret letting it go 25 years ago - used to have Artist Award and Starfire - no regrets here.
    Present guitars - all bought new - F50R 1975 - F512 1977 - F212CSB 1979 - OM-240CE 2018 - Schecter Startocaster
    Bought secondhand - B30SB fretless - RED Songbird - White Songbird - S-60D - D-125 - Gibson 3/4-size acoustic 1957 - Carmelo Gonzales nylon string - old Levin Lute

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DThomasC View Post
    If I understand your question:

    M-65
    Nut to 12th fret: 11.375" (22.75 scale length)
    high E nut to saddle: 23.00"
    Low E nut to saddle: 23.13"

    M-75
    Nut to 12th fret: 12.375" (24.75 scale length)
    High E nut to saddle: 24.80"
    Low E nut to saddle: 24.94"

    So it appears that my M-65 requires a little more compensation than my M-75, but not 0.5" worth. I probably put heavier strings on it to make the string tension more familiar. I suppose I could tune it a couple half-steps higher instead, but that seems even more unfamiliar.
    I was just wondering if the M65 just had shorter length = to one less fret. ie: spacing of the frets from 12th fret on down to the nut was the same, but the M65 had one less fret!

  8. #18
    Here's my take on the M-65 3/4. Imagine taking a normal scale M-65 and shortening the neck and fingerboard 2". When you go to layout the positions of the frets you'll find that there's room for only 19 of them instead of 22. No problem; 19 is enough.

    The other thing you'll notice is that the neck/body joint falls somewhere between the 14th and 15th frets. For some reason, guitar makers don't like it when the joint falls between frets. They want it to line up exactly at one fret or another. So to fix this on the M-65 3/4, they shortened the neck but not the fingerboard a tiny bit more so that the neck joint fell exactly at the 14th fret. This last step essentially slides the fingerboard and the bridge a tiny bit towards the tailpin relative to the normal scale version, but it maintains the 22.75" scale* they were targeting and lines up the neck joint with a fret, which we know is terribly important.

    This is all wild guessing on my part.

    *Hans writes in his book that the scale length is 22 2/3", not 22 3/4" as I measured. Call it whatever you want. I won't argue one way or the other.
    DTC

    1958 T-100, 1964 S-50, 1964 M-65, 1976 S-300 (bolt-on neck), 1977 D-25, 1977 S-300, 1979 S-300A, 1983 S-25, 1984 Detonator, 1987 Nightbird (spruce top), 1988 D-15, 2001 Blues90, 2002 Bluesbird P90, 2014 Aristocrat

  9. #19
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    2,903
    Well, that answers it!

  10. #20
    Just to add some visuals to all the verbiage.


    M-65-3/4:





    M-65:


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