Ahhh Jeez... another "What Pickup" thread - New D40 Traditional

pancho400cid

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Hi Guys -

Santa is bringing me a new D40 Traditional in antique burst finish! Can't wait!

More on that if you care:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?197875-Noob-sorely-tempted-by-D40E

Right now I play rhythm guitar and sing in a traditional country band, with electric guitar, bass, drums and pedal steel when luck permits. We have not gigged any yet but will start on Jan 16, 2019 and hopefully a couple of times a month thereafter.

The D40 Traditional does not have a pickup, and I need to put a pick-up in/on it. I want something worthy of the guitar. I have very little knowledge of / experience with amplification of acoustic guitars. I hate to drill/cut on a new guitar, but I need it to do what I'm doing....

I started out looking at a D40E which comes from the factory with an LR Baggs Element VTC pickup. That would be an option I suppose. It's good enough for the Guild guys apparently.

On this forum, the Wavelength multi-source (formerly DTAR) has been suggested. That too was offered from the factory by Guild in the past I am told.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/acoustic/wave-length-multi-source-system-steel

The wavelength looks tempting as I like the piezo / microphone combo - but I have a few questions about it:

1 - Specs say "18 volts" yet the batteries are two 1.5 Volt AA's... how does that work?

2 - Is a pre-amp of some type recommended or required?

What am I not thinking of? Any input appreciated. Thanks!
 
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adorshki

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On this forum, the Wavelength multi-source (formerly DTAR) has been suggested. That too was offered from the factory by Guild in the past I am told.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/acoustic/wave-length-multi-source-system-steel

The wavelength looks tempting as I like the piezo / microphone combo - but I have a few questions about it:

1 - Specs say "18 volts" yet the batteries are two 1.5 Volt AA's... how does that work?

2 - Is a pre-amp of some type recommended or required?

What am I not thinking of? Any input appreciated. Thanks!

Much excellent discussion of the "Wavelength" here, including pros, cons, and other suggestions :
http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showth...can-Wavelength-Duo/page2&highlight=wavelength
See post number 7 there about the voltage question, it's the pre-amp rating not the power requirement.
:friendly_wink:
 

Br1ck

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Well I know what I'd try first. It seems like you are going to be playing fairly loudly. I don't like them but an undersaddle pickup would probably be advised, then I'd pair it with Dazzos and blend it with a Sunnaudio Blender DI. That or a soundhole magnetic + Dazzo combination.
 

PittPastor

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Well I know what I'd try first. It seems like you are going to be playing fairly loudly. I don't like them but an undersaddle pickup would probably be advised, then I'd pair it with Dazzos and blend it with a Sunnaudio Blender DI. That or a soundhole magnetic + Dazzo combination.

I've never heard an under saddle pickup that I've liked. I have a vintage D40C, and I had a Fishman Matrix Infinity UTS pickup. Never could get it right. I got a good tone when I paired that with the Fishman Aura Spectrum DI -- but it wasn't really my guitar. It was a digital model of a guitar and it sounded really good -- but it didn't sound like my guitar. It sounded like a good guitar, but not like mine.

I eventually had the pickup removed, and just play it acoustically. If I want to amplify I use a mic placed in front of it. I don't play it in a band or anything, I use my Savoy if I do that.

I think if I had it to do all over again, I would go with a pickup and the ToneDexter Sprockets. Supposedly they will model your guitar, and that probably is the only way to get things right.

Hey if you don't mind used, I'd sell my Infinity Matrix UTS with the Aura for a good price. It was a good sound, but in the end I wanted my sound, and it didn't give me that. The Aura has some other nice features, such as feedback control. It is a nice piece of kit -- I just don't use it any more now that I only play my Savoy in the band.
 

chazmo

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Pancho,

Excited for you and your receipt of the D-40.

Just beware that the Duncan Wavelength (originally, DTAR Wavelength) is *only* the UST pickup. It's the Duncan Wavelength Duo (originally DTAR multi-source) that has the condenser mic plus the UST. It's this latter system (with the mic) that I was recommending to you.

I'm not sure if Guild ever put the multi-source on the D-40, but they used it on the flagship 6s and 12s for several years in New Hartford (starting about 2011 or so...). On our LetsMeetGuild stage, that system stood *far and away* the best of all the systems I heard that day (and there were many).

Of course, there are many choices and probably a lot depends on what you intend to use your system for. Personally, I have K&K minis on my F-512, and that's an OK system. But the F-512 is such an echo box that it's a problem with feedback in a band situation. Probably most systems are.
 

pancho400cid

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Just beware that the Duncan Wavelength (originally, DTAR Wavelength) is *only* the UST pickup. It's the Duncan Wavelength Duo (originally DTAR multi-source) that has the condenser mic plus the UST. It's this latter system (with the mic) that I was recommending to you.

Thanks for the correction! Good to get that clarified.
 

chazmo

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Well, it is a bit confusing. And Guild did use the Wavelength system for a while before the multi-source came into play.

Apparently now CMG isn't using either anymore. ??
 

Br1ck

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I've never heard an under saddle pickup that I've liked. I have a vintage D40C, and I had a Fishman Matrix Infinity UTS pickup. Never could get it right. I got a good tone when I paired that with the Fishman Aura Spectrum DI -- but it wasn't really my guitar. It was a digital model of a guitar and it sounded really good -- but it didn't sound like my guitar. It sounded like a good guitar, but not like mine.

I eventually had the pickup removed, and just play it acoustically. If I want to amplify I use a mic placed in front of it. I don't play it in a band or anything, I use my Savoy if I do that.

I think if I had it to do all over again, I would go with a pickup and the ToneDexter Sprockets. Supposedly they will model your guitar, and that probably is the only way to get things right.

Hey if you don't mind used, I'd sell my Infinity Matrix UTS with the Aura for a good price. It was a good sound, but in the end I wanted my sound, and it didn't give me that. The Aura has some other nice features, such as feedback control. It is a nice piece of kit -- I just don't use it any more now that I only play my Savoy in the band.

A louder band situation needs a different approach than an acoustic solo or ensemble. What you don't like about undersaddle pickups, bright, and cutting tone, can work well in an electric setting. Pair it with something else and it's relatively high feedback resistance can be an asset. There is a reason so many Anthems have been sold. But the SBT and a mag is popular too. Witness the Taylor ES systems. Not my idea of acoustic sound but they work in a great variety of contexts.

And please be aware that ANY passive piezo is going to need to be run into a device with a one meg input impedance. There are many DIs out there built for keyboards or electric drumkits that don't do this. Most any Acoustic pre will be OK.
 

pancho400cid

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Hey guys -

Just letting you know, I'm following this thread with interest and looking into each suggestion.

The main thing I have learned is how MUCH I don't know. I was all hot-and-bothered to get a pickup in the guitar before Jan as I want to play it at the first gig for my band. I do not think that is wise, and the very last thing I want to do is modify the guitar doing something regrettable.

My "new" plan is to get a sound-hole pickup as a temporary measure, knowing it is very unlikely to be the "best" option.

I like the looks/specs for the K&K double helix and the mounting shown in the pick below can be done without drilling/cutting the guitar... but it's a bit pricey... so other suggestions welcome

 
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adorshki

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The main thing I have learned is how MUCH I don't know. I was all hot-and-bothered to get a pickup in the guitar before Jan as I want to play it at the first gig for my band. I do not think that is wise, and the very last thing I want to do is modify the guitar doing something regrettable.
Wisdom.
Even though I personally believe in "bone stock" I wouldn't downgrade value of a piece for a post-purchase pickup installation that was "correct".
Heck Guild might even extend warranty to the pickup for professional installation, maybe provide the part or even do it themselves if you wanted to maintain "factory built" status.
Might be worth looking into, if the shipping isn't a big roadblock.
(it is for me, if I want to pursue a warranty issue, primarily for the damage risk, not the cost).
Or they may be able to direct you to an authorized service center.
As I understand it, they're still working on that side of the biz.
In counterpoint if you realize very quickly the guitar's gonna be a lifetime keeper, then you oughtta install whatever you decide's the best tool for the job.
I would keep the installation receipt though, just in case an unrelated warranty issue does come up, you may want to be able to show the pickup was professionally installed and shouldn't void the warranty.
For that matter, you may want to contact 'em for confirmation, because I think the warranty as it's written would technically give 'em an "out", even if the problem was completely unrelated to the pickup or its installation.
:friendly_wink:
 
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fronobulax

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Be careful. I've seen several instruments where the sound hole was damaged and/or the rosette destroyed. It won't happen the first use but it is just a Rule that none of the Guilds here get sound hole pickups.
 

crank

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Just get a K&K Pure Mini and be done with it. There is a smaller jack option if you are afraid to have the tail pin hole drilled to accept a 1/4" jack. I have had one in my G37 for, well, ever since just after I joined the forum and asked what kind of pickup I should get. I used to use it with a classic rock band I was in and it has a wonderful tone coming through a PA. I use a small external preamp for both volume control and EQ.
 

adorshki

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Just get a K&K Pure Mini and be done with it. There is a smaller jack option if you are afraid to have the tail pin hole drilled to accept a 1/4" jack. I have had one in my G37 for, well, ever since just after I joined the forum and asked what kind of pickup I should get. I used to use it with a classic rock band I was in and it has a wonderful tone coming through a PA. I use a small external preamp for both volume control and EQ.

Now that you mention it, my buddy used a soundhole pickup in his G37 when fronting an alternative/ progressive fully-amped rock band.
Awesome tone.
But I have no clue what it was, it was back in the early '80's..
Here's another idea, member Walrus recently asked what Peter Green was using here (caught somebody' attention because his lead player's using an F65ce):

We deduced it must be a Seymour Duncan SA3sc:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...Za3Cwbk8tU_gqQDszk3J7mrM3epA27x4aAp0UEALw_wcB
(Sweetwater gets a lot of love for service around here.)
Anyway, easy in, easy out, just don't leave it in the soundhole as that rubber cushion will likely react with the lacquer over an extended time.
 
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