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Thread: CMG president and video of Oxnard shop

  1. #11
    Senior Member Westerly Wood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazmo View Post
    You guys're all welcome. Oh, and Ralf, thanks... I definitely missed that! :)

    Hey, Al, you might not know this but Bob Taylor toured the New Hartford shop at some point in (I think) 2013. I recall hearing from guru,jr. (I think), that Bob was quite critical of some of the hand-oriented parts of the process. It might've been the bridge placement part (in final assembly, that is, since Taylor doesn't do it that way) or maybe the neck fitting, I don't recall. Anyway, clearly lots of different ways of thinking about the problem. Bob's successes do not necessarily translate to universal appeal, as the continued existence of Guild proves. :)
    Bob Taylor's ingenuity was the CNC process adoption for better build consistency and the Pre-NT neck. the necks of Taylors were always genius and I think he was the first to really brand the 1 and 3/4 in nut width as standard on all their acoustics. Bob was not that concerned with tone however, IMHO.

  2. #12
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazmo View Post
    Hey, Al, you might not know this but Bob Taylor toured the New Hartford shop at some point in (I think) 2013. I recall hearing from guru,jr. (I think), that Bob was quite critical of some of the hand-oriented parts of the process. It might've been the bridge placement part (in final assembly, that is, since Taylor doesn't do it that way) or maybe the neck fitting, I don't recall. Anyway, clearly lots of different ways of thinking about the problem. Bob's successes do not necessarily translate to universal appeal, as the continued existence of Guild proves. :)
    It rings a vague bell now that you mention it, but I didn't recall it when I made the comment about tolerances.
    Which I meant as being humorous for its truth but not "snark-ily".
    It's just different philosophies of construction, and "Vive le pluralite"

    Quote Originally Posted by Westerly Wood View Post
    Bob Taylor's ingenuity was the CNC process adoption for better build consistency and the Pre-NT neck. the necks of Taylors were always genius and I think he was the first to really brand the 1 and 3/4 in nut width as standard on all their acoustics. Bob was not that concerned with tone however, IMHO.
    Yeah, no slam on Taylor, but that's kind of what I've gotten over the years from light reading:
    One of his goals was to demonstrate that tone can be made very very very consistent by making every example of a given model as identical as possible and CNC's the road to that goal.
    I don't know if he had a certain "signature" tone in mind, but I think that would be more a matter of dimensions/bracing/body woods.
    And I suspect one element of Taylor's appeal may well be that consistency of tone from piece to piece of a given model.
    Might be a real attraction for touring performing artists: if something happens to an off-the rack piece, it's probably very easily replaced in any given town.
    Last edited by adorshki; 12-07-2018 at 12:17 AM.
    Al
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazmo View Post
    :) Yeah... I read it as a healthy acknowledgment of the brand and the business.

    In reality, it sounds like they actually regressed from the machining used in New Hartford. Braces, for example, were cut by CNC in NH. Some of the neck work that I saw going on in the vid looked (not sure) like stuff that had been automated in NH.

    Anyway, that was a poignant question that Jon was asked. We saw from the first models out of Oxnard that they were *not* really honoring the past with respect to the neck joint, and those models really were new, not copies of the past. He didn't really acknowledge that.
    Ovation had used CNC for necks but also for inlays etc for years before the Fender takeover. Now these machines are quite expensive to acquire, and a specific setup for a guitar part involves a considerable programming effort and some trial and error to get it right. But once it's set up it's a pretty cool and efficient process (just saw one in action at the Kamaka factory two week ago). So anyway, if CMG took the CNCs from new Hartford then the programming on them would be a pretty important asset to have. On the other hand, Ovation continued production for a few years so they sure must have still some CNC machine left in the shop. Maybe they had multiple machines for different production lines, or CMG preferred to use their own and start programming from scratch and that's why there is still more manual labour involved.

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    Super Moderator fronobulax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlin6666 View Post
    CMG preferred to use their own and start programming from scratch and that's why there is still more manual labour involved.
    At the risk of resurrecting a dead horse so it can be beaten again, we know that a) Ren Ferguson had some issues with the production line in New Hartford and b) Ren set up the Oxnard facility. So it is possible that manual procedures reflect Ren's opinion, especially when they differ between New Hartford and Oxnard.
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    ^ That is a good theory. There is ALWAYS a divide between the hand made folks and the precision made folks. I would suggest that if there is a process that needs as much accuracy as possible to not have guitars coming back, then fret grooves and neck placement would be the two I would think of first. Do those things change the sound if you compared the two methods ? If not notably, then CNC would be the best way to go, if you can pay the price for the machine.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Westerly Wood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post

    Yeah, no slam on Taylor, but that's kind of what I've gotten over the years from light reading:
    One of his goals was to demonstrate that tone can be made very very very consistent by making every example of a given model as identical as possible and CNC's the road to that goal.
    I don't know if he had a certain "signature" tone in mind, but I think that would be more a matter of dimensions/bracing/body woods.
    And I suspect one element of Taylor's appeal may well be that consistency of tone from piece to piece of a given model.
    Might be a real attraction for touring performing artists: if something happens to an off-the rack piece, it's probably very easily replaced in any given town.
    oh yeah Al, I can break my Taylor and go out and get the same model and it will sound exactly the same.
    as a performer that is pretty advantageous.

  7. #17
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westerly Wood View Post
    oh yeah Al, I can break my Taylor and go out and get the same model and it will sound exactly the same.
    as a performer that is pretty advantageous.
    Does it matter what strings you use?
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  8. #18
    Senior Member Westerly Wood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Does it matter what strings you use?
    string companies love me

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