Just How Rare *is* the M-30 Del Rio?

[J.K.]

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
57
Reaction score
8
The M-30 Del Rio: famously played by Big Foot as evidenced by the singular blurry photo of him that exists.
What's the deal with its rarity?
I was always curious about the M-20 (though the recent Oxnard M-20 I purchased wasn't quite what I was looking for, as noted in my review/for sale listing in the FS/FT board), and when I was originally shopping for a mahogany guitar maybe three years ago, I was primarily interested in the M-20 until a cheap 00-15M chanced its way to me via someone my band shared a practice space with. But whenever I saw "M-30," I always thought it was a typo from someone who was a key shy of their intentions.

So naturally, as time when on, I assumed "Del Rio" (presumably named after the river that nursed the gold-leafed trees at the heart of El Dorado) was, at best, just a rumor told to inspire collectors and drive them mad, but after seeing a dowdy and abused/loved one Reverb a few months back when I was purchasing an F-30, I became more curious. (Another strange addendum in relation to the that link is that when I was searching for that it, I found another listing that looks to be the same guitar, especially when looking at the cleating, but the date is 1953 and it apparently belonged to the seller's father... how it got purchased and resold in such a short turnaround and somehow even got misdated in the process is a mystery for another time.)

I don't know how well it can be believed, but Guitar List seems to purport the incredulous notion that they were produced from 1952-1985, which might be semi-plausible if they made one a year, but I don't see them as a fitting in to Westerly's mid-70s output. Furthermore, Guild's dating system doesn't seem to leave room for them in their 1965-1969 dating scheme.‡ If nothing else I think it's safe to assume that they were among the first off the line and were around at least until the date of that catalog I linked to, which is from "196X."

Does anyone know how many may have been made, or have an explanation for the scarcity of them? Were they that unpopular? Or was the price point to close to a spruce-topped F-series model in a time when all-mahogany guitars weren't in vogue? If nothing else, they seem to have been an option for nearly a decade, so the scarcity is at least a bit of a surprise.

(‡ To be fair, though, I don't see the M-20 in their mid/late 60s numbering system, but I do see the equally elusive M-20¾, and I'm pretty sure I've seen the AH serial numbers on regular sized M-20s from that period. I am a bit curious about those, too, like is the ¾ scale actually ¾, and if so, is that in relation to the 24.75" models, or did the M-20 also get a 25.5" scale length boost in the 70s like the F-20s did?)
 

AcornHouse

Venerated Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
10,212
Reaction score
7,206
Location
Bidwell, OH
Guild Total
21
He says they started in '59 and were discontinued in '64. So, they didn't last long.

(And if any come up in decent shape for not ridiculous money, you're gonna have to fight me for it. Unless you want that cleated one. That's too messed up for me.)
 

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,636
Location
New York
there was no “M-20 3/4,” that may have been an option for a special order, but ive never seen or heard of one. they are 24.75 scale. mid-late 70s they made some 25.5 scale as well. M-30’s pop up occasionally, but it is going to sound a lot like the M-20, so if the M-20 is in your “sell” pile (even a new oxnard), I wouldn’t be so hot for an M-30. you may want to try the mahogany top flat back D-25 from 1968-1972 (also some corona era reissues, as well as the current Oxnard “D-20”) which are all 25.5 scale dreads, or possibly an F-30 with the spruce top
 

[J.K.]

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
57
Reaction score
8
M-30’s pop up occasionally, but it is going to sound a lot like the M-20, so if the M-20 is in your “sell” pile (even a new oxnard), I wouldn’t be so hot for an M-30.
I actually have a 72 F-30. It's seen some battles, but it's hands-down my favorite acoustic I've ever played. The balance is perfect, and my first couple stabs at recording it last month came out better than any steel string acoustic experiences I've had before.
After playing the M-20 a bit last night, I am second-guessing how much I want to sell it. If nothing else, I'm going to check out an older M-20 this weekend, so I'm curious as to how much more that will mellow out the highs (I recently saw user markfhp's comparison of his 65 M-20 and his 2018 model, and the 65 definitely sounds more like what I was expecting, though the specs of the new ones don't seem to imply as different of a tone as what I feel like I'm hearing given that the bracing is the only notable change publicized).

On a related note, it's a real bummer that the only physical copies of The Guild Guitar Book are so expensive. I'm much more of a player than a collector, but it would be nice to be able to read it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
Messages
397
Reaction score
71
Location
Minnesota
I've not seen anything to contradict Hans Moust's account--I've personally seen exactly one in my half-century of Guild-watching (and I bought it), and I've I've noticed a very few more in on-line sales. There's a lot of misinformation about the dating of Guilds, including assertions that models that only appeared after 1958 were available earlier. (I won't get into the Nick Drake legend--though it certainly bumped the market value of my '65 M-20 when it came time ot deacquisition it.)
 

[J.K.]

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
57
Reaction score
8
(I won't get into the Nick Drake legend--though it certainly bumped the market value of my '65 M-20 when it came time ot deacquisition it.)
Oh man, sometimes I wish it were possible to put an asterisk next to every mention of him using that guitar. To be fair, it was one of the things that led me to peek into older Guilds years ago, but listening to the guitar on Bryter Later, especially tracks like Hazey Jane and Fly, it's audacious to attribute that sound to a smaller guitar, much less a mahogany model.
 

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,442
Reaction score
8,956
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
There's a lot of misinformation about the dating of Guilds, including assertions that models that only appeared after 1958 were available earlier.
I think is has to do with the odd numbering of the M-30 serial numbers in 1959. As far as I understood they had only 4 digit serial numbers like 1105 or 1468 or 1506 or so. Which would have been 1953 or 1954 serial numbers... I am not sure Hans ever explained why the M-30 (and maybe also M-20) used those four digit serial numbers serial numbers outside the normal 5 digit range at that time. I think we discussed about a handful of M-30 here at LTG in the past, Hans had also told about the last batch of 21 pcs M-30 made in 1964 after the model was already discontinued from the catalogs and price lists. (EDIT: See post #12)
Ralf
 
Last edited:

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
I think is has to do with the odd numbering of the M-30 serial numbers in 1959. As far as I understood they had only 4 digit serial numbers like 1105 or 1468 or 1506 or so. Which would have been 1953 or 1954 serial numbers... I am not sure Hans ever explained why the M-30 (and maybe also M-20) used those four digit serial numbers serial numbers outside the normal 5 digit range at that time. I think we discussed about a handful of M-30 here at LTG in the past, Hans had also told about the last batch of 21 pcs M-30 made in 1964 after the model was already discontinued from the catalogs and price lists.
Ralf

So nice when you visit, sir.
Like rain on parched ground.
 

hansmoust

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
9,201
Reaction score
3,504
Location
Netherlands
.......... Hans had also told about the last batch of 21 pcs M-30 made in 1964 after the model was already discontinued from the catalogs and price lists.

No, I did not say that. I said that the guitar in question was completed with 21 other M-30s from that same batch on that particular day; the complete batch was bigger than that!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,442
Reaction score
8,956
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
No, I did not say that. I said that the guitar in question was completed with 21 other M-30s from that same batch on that particular day; the complete batch was bigger than that!
Thanks Hans for correcting! I had misunderstood that.
Ralf
 

hansmoust

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
9,201
Reaction score
3,504
Location
Netherlands
That info about the batch of M-30s was posted by me quite a few years ago. Part of that posting was a request for info from people who were in highschool during 1964, but I did not get much reaction at the time. Since there are a lot more members on the LTG forum these days, it might not be a bad idea to post that question again:

In 1964 the M-30 was already taken out of the line, so it's kind of surprising to see that Guild made a medium-sized batch of M-30s during 1964 of which Diamondave's M-30 is one. It was finished on June 18, 1964 together with 21 other M-30s of that same batch.

During those years it was not unusual for Guild to get orders from the highschool music departments; those were mainly entry level instruments like M-20s, Mark Is and Mark IIs. While looking at the ledgers of this particular period it looks like Guild was producing the instruments that were ordered for the new school year, but one cannot help but notice that 1964 shows a much larger number of these entry level instruments than what was produced during the previous years. It might be speculation on my part, but I'm almost convinced that these big orders had something to do with the appearance of the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show in February that year, after which every American kid wanted to play the guitar. Anyway, Guild sold a bunch of them and the fact that a lot of these instruments went to schools might account for the scarcity (compared to the rather big numbers that were produced) of M-20s on the market today. These M-20s were rather lightly built and I guess that most of them didn't survive the treatment they would get from the school kids at the time. The batch of M-30s probably falls into that category of school-orders as well, since the model was already discontinued. Guild was not the kind of company that would say NO, when they could sell an entire batch!

Now, do any of you have pictures of their high school band or music classes that show any Guild guitars? That would be schools in the north-eastern part of the U.S. ( New York, New Jersey and New England) in particular! Anyone still has his/her Highschool Year Book from that period? Anything in there?

If not, do any of you remember Guild guitars being used in the schools? I know, I know.............. for some of you that must have been before you started to smoke dope, so small chance you remember anything!



Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

Rayk

Enlightened Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
5,769
Reaction score
1,172
That info about the batch of M-30s was posted by me quite a few years ago. Part of that posting was a request for info from people who were in highschool during 1964, but I did not get much reaction at the time. Since there are a lot more members on the LTG forum these days, it might not be a bad idea to post that question again:

In 1964 the M-30 was already taken out of the line, so it's kind of surprising to see that Guild made a medium-sized batch of M-30s during 1964 of which Diamondave's M-30 is one. It was finished on June 18, 1964 together with 21 other M-30s of that same batch.

During those years it was not unusual for Guild to get orders from the highschool music departments; those were mainly entry level instruments like M-20s, Mark Is and Mark IIs. While looking at the ledgers of this particular period it looks like Guild was producing the instruments that were ordered for the new school year, but one cannot help but notice that 1964 shows a much larger number of these entry level instruments than what was produced during the previous years. It might be speculation on my part, but I'm almost convinced that these big orders had something to do with the appearance of the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show in February that year, after which every American kid wanted to play the guitar. Anyway, Guild sold a bunch of them and the fact that a lot of these instruments went to schools might account for the scarcity (compared to the rather big numbers that were produced) of M-20s on the market today. These M-20s were rather lightly built and I guess that most of them didn't survive the treatment they would get from the school kids at the time. The batch of M-30s probably falls into that category of school-orders as well, since the model was already discontinued. Guild was not the kind of company that would say NO, when they could sell an entire batch!

Now, do any of you have pictures of their high school band or music classes that show any Guild guitars? That would be schools in the north-eastern part of the U.S. ( New York, New Jersey and New England) in particular! Anyone still has his/her Highschool Year Book from that period? Anything in there?

If not, do any of you remember Guild guitars being used in the schools? I know, I know.............. for some of you that must have been before you started to smoke dope, so small chance you remember anything!



Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Haha Hanz said dope !
 

bobouz

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
2,228
Reaction score
1,827
Entered the eighth grade in the fall of '64.

Too busy looking at girls to remember guitars!
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Entered the eighth grade in the fall of '64.

Too busy looking at girls to remember guitars!

Entered 2nd grade in fall of '64.
Was already looking at girls, especially when they were doing knee spins on the "horizontal bars":
da5927abb9285406cf6b951eccbb488f--school-days-old-school.jpg

And wondering what all the "McCartney" noise was about.
They musta been gettin' it from their big sisters.


Haha Hanz said dope !
Clearly there is a picture someone needs to find and re-post for you.
You must mean the one with all his black guitars:


TQQm8O.jpg
 
Top