Are these upgrades worth it?

PittPastor

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Whether that effect is noticeable, or even "good" or "bad" is, of course, in the ears of the listener. :)

I think that's a really important point. Even if the tone is adjusted, you might not like the result. But someone else might.

That's why some people love the Taylor sound and some love the Martin sound. So much of it is what you expect to hear when you play. I've read where people said they thought an Olson sounded too chime-y. Go figure...

I wonder if some violinists hate the sound of a Stradivarius?
 

chazmo

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I think that's a really important point. Even if the tone is adjusted, you might not like the result. But someone else might.

...

I wonder if some violinists hate the sound of a Stradivarius?
I know a few classical soloists who play cello who enjoy other luthiers' products more than the Cremona Stradivari products. In the violin/viola world, I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say that. I've never heard anyone trash talk a Stradivarius of any type though. Maybe in 300 years, they'll be idolizing 20th century Guilds. Who knows. :) More likely, they'll just be arguing over depleted uranium vs. unobtanium string tone. :)
 

Charlie Bernstein

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I think that's a really important point. Even if the tone is adjusted, you might not like the result. But someone else might. . . .

Exactly! That's why I'm wondering not just whether but how those changes affect the sound.

For instance, my guit whisperer said scalloping the braces would give me more bottom, and I don't want more bottom.
 

adorshki

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Okay, I've nixed the tuner idea. I'll get a bone saddle and maybe a nut, too. Uh, probably a nut, too.

Thanks for the suggestions, gang!

The nut enhances sustain on unfretted strings, so if you play a lot of those, like open chords up and down the neck, (I do); it's worth it.
 

adorshki

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But, keep in mind that the pins themselves do make direct contact with the string ends and the bridge/bridge-plate/soundboard. Theoretically, the shape and materials used for everything involved in that transfer of vibration/energy could have an effect on tone. Whether that effect is noticeable, or even "good" or "bad" is, of course, in the ears of the listener. :)
Yes.
THAT's it.
 

Charlie Bernstein

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The nut enhances sustain on unfretted strings, so if you play a lot of those, like open chords up and down the neck, (I do); it's worth it.
Aha! More good info. Yes, I pound out cowboy chords shamelessly - one reason I like Guilds so much.

Thanks, that helps. I'll probably get a bone nut.
 

fronobulax

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Well no one cited the basic physics I was hoping for, or threw out a relevant equation or two but the general idea that the pins effect the mass of the bridge makes sense to me. The traditional analysis of a vibrating string assumes the end points are anchored and the only vibration occurs between the anchor points. Thus, the model does not allow for any effect from, for example, the bridge pins. I'd say in this case the model does not completely match reality.
 

adorshki

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Well no one cited the basic physics I was hoping for, or threw out a relevant equation or two but the general idea that the pins effect the mass of the bridge makes sense to me. The traditional analysis of a vibrating string assumes the end points are anchored and the only vibration occurs between the anchor points. Thus, the model does not allow for any effect from, for example, the bridge pins. I'd say in this case the model does not completely match reality.
That's correct that model is incomplete.
The erroneous assumption in that model is that vibration only occurs between the anchored end points.
Actually, the issue is that only the vibration created between the anchored endpoints is responsible for pitch of the string at a given tension.
BUT: Strings also vibrate in the area between the saddle and the bridgepins as well as the nut and the tuning posts.
The density of the pin material will affect how much of that vibration is damped (Absorbed by the pin) or reflected into the bridge and bridgeplate (and thus the top).
Similar to the principle of a glued neck allowing better transmission of vibration between neck and body than a bolt-on neck which is usually assumed to have less efficient transmission of energy between mating surfaces.
 

tommym

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Love my '76 D-35. To gild the lily, I've added a neck heal strap button, K&K Mini pickup, and bone bridge pins. Now I'm thinking about:

- bone saddle
- bone nut
- open-back Grover tuners

Good ideas? What's your experience?

Thanks!

I have changed tuners on some of my Guilds. Sometimes it is an upgrade, but most of the time (for me) it just for aesthetics of it all (closed vs open). My most current swap on my Guild Standards are closed to open gear. It should be noted that the factory supplied Gotoh closed gear tuners have a higher ratio gear and are just as smooth in operation as my replacement Gotoh open gear tuners. So it this case it is hard to call it an "upgrade". There is a total weight reduction of 60 grams at the headstock. I have not noticed any change in tone in either guitar, nor a detectable change in balance of the neck to body balance.

Tommy

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dreadnut

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Enclosed tuners used to be considered upgrades because they didn't require lubrication or the maintenance necessary with open tuners. Having said that, the open tuners on my D-25M have only required a couple small drops of oil in 42 years and an occasional adjustment of the screws. They are still smooth-turning and linear and they hold a tuning perfectly - no looseness or fudging up and down. I wouldn't think of "upgrading" them to enclosed
 

chazmo

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Chris, that was cool. Those old Klusons were made with access holes and weren't really totally sealed, so it's relatively easy to fix 'em. I couldn't spot any good way to access the gears in the Grover tuners that I've seen over the years. There's probably a way, but since modern, higher-ratio gears were available I've just replaced them with new.
 

Charlie Bernstein

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. . . I wonder if some violinists hate the sound of a Stradivarius?
My friend Tom's brother-in-law, a violinist-turned-investment-banker, has a Strad in his closet. He played it for Tom once, and Tom said that from five feet away it sounded like seagulls fighting over a french fry but at twenty feet it sounded like heaven opening up and raining roses and rainbows.
 

Br1ck

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As far as classical violins go, what a premier concert soloist needs is different from what a concertmaster needs. One needs volume and projection, the other the ability to blend with the violin section but still be heard.

I have never noticed much change in nut and saddle material as long as it's not cheap plastic.
 

dreadnut

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I kinda like the sound of seagulls fighting over a french fry...sounds like a bluesmeister.
 
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