Are these upgrades worth it?

Charlie Bernstein

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Love my '76 D-35. To gild the lily, I've added a neck heal strap button, K&K Mini pickup, and bone bridge pins. Now I'm thinking about:

- bone saddle
- bone nut
- open-back Grover tuners

Good ideas? What's your experience?

Thanks!
 

richardp69

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Financially, it may not be worth it. but IMHO the bone nut and saddle makes for a nice upgrade in sound, at least to my ear it does. The open back Grovers might look better but I can't see how they would improve tone/sound. If the existing tuning machines work as they should I'd leave them alone unless you're just going for that type of look.

My own philosophy is that I don't much care if upgrades make financial sense or not. If they make me happy and I can afford it then I go ahead with it.
 

AcornHouse

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The nut and saddle, definitely. As Richard said, if you’re having trouble with the original tuners, then maybe an upgrade is required (although some tuners can be greatly improved by a little cleaning and lubing.) If not, then that’s more of a cosmetic issues that’s up to you.
 

PittPastor

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Love my '76 D-35. To gild the lily, I've added a neck heal strap button, K&K Mini pickup, and bone bridge pins.

2 Questions:

1) Do you play mostly pure acoustic, or do you play mostly plugged in?
2) Did you personally notice any tone difference with the bone bridge pins? (Or were you going for an aesthetic improvement instead of tone?)
 

dreadnut

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I would only do the saddle and nut. Those original tuners were a step up from the D-25 open back tuners at the time. If they're not a problem, I'd recommend leaving them alone.But that's just me.

Speaking of '76, here's my buddy's Tobacco 'burst D-35 next to my D-25M, we both bought them new in '76.

reekDrO.jpg


o7RMXXm.jpg
 

gjmalcyon

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In this order:

1). Bone saddle, properly cut and intonated.

2). Bone nut.

I've done both on a couple of guitars (wife's D-4 and my D-35) and the difference is noticeable. Not huge, but noticeable.
 

Rayk

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My own philosophy is that I don't much care if upgrades make financial sense or not. If they make me happy and I can afford it then I go ahead with it.

Right on Rich 😁
Except in my case I go for fossilized Walrus , might as well go all the way ! Lol
 

Walter Broes

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Saddle, absolutely. Replace the nut if/when it needs a new one. Leave the tuners alone if the original ones function well.
 

Charlie Bernstein

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2 Questions:

1) Do you play mostly pure acoustic, or do you play mostly plugged in?
2) Did you personally notice any tone difference with the bone bridge pins? (Or were you going for an aesthetic improvement instead of tone?)
1) I do a lot of both. If I only played plugged, I'd get a $200 Yamaha and be done with it.

2) I went from old stings to new when I put in the pins, so of course it sounded better. Did the pins make any of the difference? I'd really have to play two identical guitars to know.
 

Charlie Bernstein

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Saddle, absolutely. Replace the nut if/when it needs a new one. Leave the tuners alone if the original ones function well.
That's pretty much what my guit fixer said.

There's a chip out of the nut from a run-in with a sidewalk while busking. Hasn't affected the sound, but it might be a good excuse to replace it.
 

PittPastor

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1)

2) I went from old stings to new when I put in the pins, so of course it sounded better. Did the pins make any of the difference? I'd really have to play two identical guitars to know.

That’s my issue. I had a bone saddle and bone nut put on my D40C. I honestly can’t tell you what difference it makes. I guess I don’t have the ear for it. Now changing strings? You bet. I can also hear the intonation... I’ll hear a note being sharp or flat moving up the frets. I can hear a string being flat or sharp in a strum... but the difference between a Tusq and bone saddle? Nope. I can’t really hear it.

Some guys say they can and I believe them. I just don’t have the ear for it.

Your question tho was “Is it worth it?”

How do you judge that? It’s only about $80 I think. Considering everything that isn’t much. But you won’t get it back if you go to sell it. No one’s going to give you more for it because you list a bone nut. So if that is how you judge it... it’s not worth it.

But you said you love the guitar... so selling it isn’t a consideration. You might always wonder “what if?” If you don’t. And it’s reversible if you want to go back and forth...

Like everyone says, it’s kind of up to you and what you’re looking for.
 

Brucebubs

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I put fresh strings and a new bone saddle on my Epiphone EJ-200 - sounded good.

The very next day a set of bone pins that I'd ordered to replace the original plastic pins were delivered.

So I took my time getting them to fit neatly and I think the guitar sounded even better - more sustain and a touch louder.

uYcyw5Rl.jpg
oE8SoNpl.jpg
 

fronobulax

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And now, another question from me that ultimately rests on ignorance and incorrect assumptions.

I get that the saddle will have an effect on volume and probably tone. It is, after all, a direct physical connection to the top. I could argue either way for the nut but since the nut holds and constrains the vibrating string if someone else can hear a difference I won't argue with them. But bridge pins? What is the mechanism by which the material of a bridge pin effects tone and volume?

I know that the pin effects the break angle over the saddle and that is important, but plastic and bone pins should give the same angle. If the string is vibrating between the saddle and the anchor point, is that enough to be heard? If we are going to worry about the pin material because of that should we also be concerned about the other end of the string - the distance between the nut and the tuners and the vibrational characteristics of the tuners? Perhaps because the bridge drives the top, it is the mass of the bridge pins and not the material that is making a difference?

Basically, if a claim is made that bridge pins effect the sound and/or volume, how do they do that?
 

chazmo

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Fro, I don''t think that's ignorance or bad assumptions... But, keep in mind that the pins themselves do make direct contact with the string ends and the bridge/bridge-plate/soundboard. Theoretically, the shape and materials used for everything involved in that transfer of vibration/energy could have an effect on tone. Whether that effect is noticeable, or even "good" or "bad" is, of course, in the ears of the listener. :)
 

Charlie Bernstein

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And now, another question from me that ultimately rests on ignorance and incorrect assumptions.

I get that the saddle will have an effect on volume and probably tone. It is, after all, a direct physical connection to the top. I could argue either way for the nut but since the nut holds and constrains the vibrating string if someone else can hear a difference I won't argue with them. But bridge pins? What is the mechanism by which the material of a bridge pin effects tone and volume? . . .
Dunno! Maybe it's because bone is harder than plastic. Maybe because it's more resonant. Different woods have different tones and loudness, so I imagine plastic, bone, brass, and torrefied Bazooka Joe all have different tones and loudness, too.

Just guessing.
 

AcornHouse

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Re: bridge pins
I think it’s a matter of how solid they hold the strings terminal end at the soundboard. While plastic pins hold the pins in place, I think they don’t give as good a connection with the bridge, and, thus, the soundboard. While it may all be in the mind, I think there’s a direct correlation with mandolins. Many owners change out the original stamped steel tailpiece for a beefier solid cast bronze tailpiece, and claim a better sound.

While the vibrations are focused at the saddle, I don’t think you can dismiss any part of the whole as not having some impact. Think about the difference between the sound of a slide on a guitar string, and a fretted note. They both provide a hard contact with the string to change its effective length, but there is a noticeable difference in the sound.


And, Of course, guitars painted white sound better. Right Billy Corgan?
 
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