What’s caused this?

D55007

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What’s caused this?

Hello,

I have a 2014 D55. On taking it out to play recently, I noticed a hairline crack in (forgive me for not knowing the term) white band around the guitar, as you look down from above while holding it. I’m baffled as to what’s caused this. It’s not been dropped or knocked and I don’t recall ever doing anything while having it out which could have caused this. What makes the situation even more interesting is that the finish itself hasn’t been compromised - if you run your finger over the guitar it’s as smooth as the day it left the factory. Any ideas?
 

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Binding is the term you are looking for. That's weird, I have sone NH Guilds and I have never noticed that. I will have to check now.
 

JohnW63

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Is the crack straight or a bit jagged ?

Could it be someone made a seam there, when building it ? I know they're supposed to use one long piece from neck, all the way around to the neck on the other side, but... late on a Friday ?
 

chazmo

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Yes, that's probably a seam, but hard to tell without seeing it. It's possible that the white, plastic binding has started to shrink a little bit and the seam has separated. Although, thinking about it, if you can't actually feel it when you run your finger or a nail over it, perhaps the seam was always slightly separated from the factory and was filled in with lacquer when they sprayed it in the booth.

Having watched the guys in New Hartford apply bindings to a guitar, it is an art and pretty tricky to do perfectly. A picture would really help here. :)
 

Nuuska

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Grüss Gott

In my eyes that looks like a round object ( clamp ? ) had put pressure on it.
Are you sure it was not hit somehow?
Hard to believe, that it is a clamp pressure mark from factory - would not pass inspection.
 

stormin1155

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It looks like it's been hit with something and took out a chip. That wouldn't be a difficult to repair for a good tech.
 

chazmo

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OK, well, that's definitely not a seam. Indeed it looks like someone chipped the lacquer off there, probably with an impact. I would just get one of those lacquer "pens" from Stew-Mac and just touch-fill it. Doesn't look like the binding itself was damaged at all.
 

Rayk

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OK, well, that's definitely not a seam. Indeed it looks like someone chipped the lacquer off there, probably with an impact. I would just get one of those lacquer "pens" from Stew-Mac and just touch-fill it. Doesn't look like the binding itself was damaged at all.

I agree , easy fix but it could take a wee bit of time as It was mentioned to me to apply NCL in layers . I guess so not to over apply ?

Glad the NCL is not stained ;) I need to look into that lacquer pen Chazmo i did not know it was a thing glad you mentioned that :)

007 if you do the repair yourself you might like get a set of these as well :)

MICRO MESH SOFT TOUCH SANDING PADS https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H6EC4C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_mCD6Bb477STN2
 

chazmo

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Ohh.... this may not be quite the same. I see this warning:

Warning! Lacquer under pressure
Our new touch up pens differ from the felt tipped marker type we previously stocked. These pens contain nitrocellulose lacquer that is under pressure. It is very important to relieve the pressure built up from shaking it prior to use by pressing down on the tip with the pen in the upright position. This will prevent the pen from flooding your work with excess lacquer.


Like it says, expeeriment on test wood before using on your prize axe!
 

adorshki

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What makes the situation even more interesting is that the finish itself hasn’t been compromised - if you run your finger over the guitar it’s as smooth as the day it left the factory. Any ideas?

It looks like it's been hit with something and took out a chip. That wouldn't be a difficult to repair for a good tech.

OK, well, that's definitely not a seam. Indeed it looks like someone chipped the lacquer off there, probably with an impact. I would just get one of those lacquer "pens" from Stew-Mac and just touch-fill it. Doesn't look like the binding itself was damaged at all.

IF I understand D55007's statement correctly, being "smooth as the day it left the factory" rules out a chip.
So that must have existed prior to finishing and suspect it simply escaped his notice all this time.
D55, did you buy the guitar new or secondhand?
Is there anything on the label indicating that this was possibly a "B" stock, which New Hartford was known to have liquidated at close? ( A tiny red "B" on the label)
Most New Hartford "B" stocks were cosmetic blems that were so hard to find that many members have said they couldn't find 'em.
Might explain why it was missed for so long, if that's what actually happened.
 

fronobulax

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p.jpeg


Just embedded one of the links above. I see shadow so maybe it is deeper than described? Having seen binding installed in New Hartford a couple of times I do not think this is related to the installation. It is possible that the binding was damaged or defective at installation in which case it might be the "defect in materials" that constitutes a warranty claim for the original purchaser. It may also be a factory second or a floor model that was damaged. If it wasn't there "before" then almost certainly something 'dinged it'. Metal on a belt, shirt or jacket or strap? A case latch when it wasn't seated properly?

Knowing next to nothing about the physical properties of NCL I could speculate that something hit it hard enough to dent the binding but not break the finish.

But I'm leaning towards "never noticed before" rather than something happened recently.
 

fronobulax

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I know they're supposed to use one long piece from neck, all the way around to the neck on the other side, but... late on a Friday ?

How do you know that? If you asked me what I thought I remembered from watching the process a couple of times in New Hartford, I would have said there were two or three strips of binding used on one guitar. But I just scanned Mrs. Fro's F-30 Traditional and if there are seams they are matched so well I can's see them. My eyesight and my memory are both shot so I'm not sure which one to trust :) Thanks.
 

chazmo

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IF I understand D55007's statement correctly, being "smooth as the day it left the factory" rules out a chip.
[ ... ]
That's a really good point, Al. If that area really is smooth then here's what I think. I still believe strongly that it is a lacquer chip, as I see no evidence of the binding actually being damaged. If that chip had been filled with NCL (as it probably should've been) it would not look like that. The lacquer would've melted together and the repair would not look like a chip. It might be a little uneven/wavy, but it wouldn't look like a chip. What I'm guessing happened here (again, if it really is smooth) is that someone filled this chip in with cyanoacrylate. In that case, the chipped edges would remain visible.

That's my theory. And, touche... very good point. I hope 007 has another look at this and finds that it really isn't smooth. If superglue was used to fill this, trying to fill it (again) with lacquer would not work.
 

D55007

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Folks, sorry for the delay in replying - life kind of took over.

So..yeah... I can’t recall it being struck or knocked or anything, that’s whars frustrating. You would have thought that the finish would have been comprimised to be honest.

It’s not B stock from memory (I’ll need to have a look) and was brand new when I bought it in 2014. Certainly hope it wasn’t B stock for the price I paid for it!!

Regardless of how it happened, I’ll need to get it fixed. How does a tech go about this? I won’t be attempting it myself but am curious as to how they would sort something under the finish and repair to so you wouldn’t even know it had happened?
 

bobouz

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Ohh.... this may not be quite the same. I see this warning:
Warning! Lacquer under pressure
Our new touch up pens differ from the felt tipped marker type we previously stocked. These pens contain nitrocellulose lacquer that is under pressure. It is very important to relieve the pressure built up from shaking it prior to use by pressing down on the tip with the pen in the upright position. This will prevent the pen from flooding your work with excess lacquer.
Like it says, expeeriment on test wood before using on your prize axe!

Yes, use caution. Even with the old felt-end applicator, these pens can release a huge blob of lacquer all at once. Luckily, my first experience with this happening was on test paper, while assessing three different pens for an optimal color match. Nowadays if I'm going to use this stuff, I first put it in a plastic cup & use a fine brush.

If all you need is clear nitro, a much better deal is to buy a quart of "Behlen Stringed Instrument Lacquer."
 

adorshki

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Folks, sorry for the delay in replying - life kind of took over.

So..yeah... I can’t recall it being struck or knocked or anything, that’s whars frustrating. You would have thought that the finish would have been comprimised to be honest.
If, under magnifying glass, there's not even a crack in finish, then I'd bet it was present when the guitar was originally finished in factory.
Why can we see a shadow if the finish is "uncompromised" and "perfectly smooth"?
It's impossible to tell from those pics, need to look at it from several angles.
If finish is perfectly level with rest of finish along binding over that spot, then I'm guessing it was drop filled at factory to bring that spot up to level just before before finishing was completed.
(There's several layers sprayed during finishing)
It’s not B stock from memory (I’ll need to have a look) and was brand new when I bought it in 2014. Certainly hope it wasn’t B stock for the price I paid for it!!
Typically a "B" stock needs to be disclosed to buyer because of possible warranty limitations or complete exclusion.
We know New Hartford did liquidate sell some "B" stock during the shut-down and they weren't always marked, but a list of the excluded s/n's was provided to Oxnard so they know which ones were excluded from warranty.
Cordoba-Guild (Oxnard) did assume warranty liability for original owners of "A" stock New Hartfords purchased from authorized Guild dealers.
If you contact them with s/n they should be able to give a definitive answer.
Whether or not they'd consider it a genuine defect, ie a flaw in workmanship, is another matter.
Regardless of how it happened, I’ll need to get it fixed.
How does a tech go about this? I won’t be attempting it myself but am curious as to how they would sort something under the finish and repair to so you wouldn’t even know it had happened?
Well I'm not a luthier or tech but I'm be pretty darn sure it'll involve removing the binding, IF it's a dent in the binding.
I'd actually be kind of surprised if that could be fixed seamlessly, without replacing the entire strip.
Which might be surprisingly costly, I don't know.
The good news is that genuine NCL is relatively easily "patched", the bad news is that I believe it's problematic matching a sunburst top when doing so.
Before one considers the cost of the delicate binding repair.
Which is why I kind of suspect Oxnard won't consider it to be a genuine defect in materials or workmanship even if you can demonstrate it left New Hartford that way.
PS first step in a warranty claim is to contact selling dealer and let them know what the problem is.
They're your ombudsman with Guild.
And they should confirm warranty status regardless of whether Oxnard ok's the fix or not.
IF it were me, I think I'd try to learn to live with it rather than risk somebody making a very minor problem worse with a poor repair job, even if it is covered by warranty.
"food for thought"
:friendly_wink:
 
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