Guild D212 or Guild D2512???

Hi,

I've been looking for a quality Guild dreadnaught 12 string. I ordered a Guild D212 from Reverb and really love it... except it got busted during shipping to me so I am returning it. It stills sounds great though!

So as I have been looking I have seen some Westerly guitars (mostly from the 1980's) that are called D212's and others called D2512's... is this a typo on the people selling it or are these two different models? Were they made at the same time? They look like the same guitar from what I can tell by looking at pictures.

Also if anyone knows where to point me to find an excellent condition one of these please let me know!

Thanks for your help!

Welcome aboard, aspalmer!

That's a really good question, and I don't know the answer off the top of my head. The rest of the crew will likely chime in.

Hello "as", welcome aboard!
Over the years we've come to accept that Guild was a little inconsistent with their model numbers.
The D212 and the D2512 were both legitimate model numbers for the 12-string version of the D25, and according to the s/n charts the D212 number was used from '81-'83, the D25-12 beginning in '87 which perhaps not coincidentally was the same year as an ownership change at Guild and the introduction of the narrow "Gruhn" headstock on the base D25.
That wouldn't have mattered in the 12-string version but there may have been other subtle changes (like bracing) that did.
Or they may have changed the number simply to distinguish the later version from the newer version, s '87 was a year when Guild also underwent an ownership change and implemented new designs across the line as well.
Can't recall ever hearing from an owner who thought one was better than the other, though.
Real bummer about the '212, it's not like we can afford to lose even one of 'em, but good luck in your hunt!

D212s are great guitars - find one with good neck angle and decent saddle height and
it'll likely be a very enjoyable instrument. Here's one of mine - sold it just a couple of weeks ago -
and a photo of someone you might recognize with a similar guitar :wink:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Sounds like I can't go wrong with either a D212 or a D2512! Does anyone know when the quit making a USA made mahogany 12 string like these?

My 2 main players are Guild D-50s... I love them... I would post a picture but I can't figure out how yet! LOL I also would like to have the forum send me an email notification when my posts get a reply if possible... Any advice? Thanks!

AS, they were definitely gone by the Tacoma-era (starting in 2005) and had been replaced at that time by the GAD-G212, which was MIC. I suspect they were gone before then, but I don't know what was made in Corona (starting back in 2001, I think). There *were* D-25s made in Corona, so it's possible there was a 12-string version too.

IIRC, the shift from D-212 to D-25-12 was simply a model designation change that did not impact the build of the guitar, at least not right away. The change was made to reflect that the D-25-12 was a 12-string version of the popular D-25 archback. Here is info from the Blue Book:

u can also get a D-4-12 which again is basically the same thing, there may some some very subtle cosmetic differences. someone was selling one for $500 near me not long ago. if the add resurfaces ill send it your way

chazmo said:

AS, they were definitely gone by the Tacoma-era (starting in 2005) and had been replaced at that time by the GAD-G212, which was MIC. I suspect they were gone before then, but I don't know what was made in Corona (starting back in 2001, I think). There *were* D-25s made in Corona, so it's possible there was a 12-string version too.

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Nope, no D25-12-ers in Corona, Westerlys were the last of 'em.
US-made G212 (and GADG212) actually had spruce tops, so were actually based on D40's:
https://reverb.com/item/93093-guild...tic-dreadnought-guitar-w-ohsc-all-solid-woods
In Corona they revived the all-hog flatback design for D25s and only made 'em for about a year ('02-'03) before the GADs came out.
And THOSE were all-hog flatback design as well, but they did produce a 12-string version of it, an actual GAD D125:
https://reverb.com/item/605085-guild-gad-d-125-12-string-natural-hcs.

aspalmer84 said:

Does anyone know when the quit making a USA made mahogany 12 string like these?

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Westerly, as noted above.
There haven't been ANY US-made dreadnought 12's since then; even the D25 itself was import-only starting in early '04, and only recently revived in Oxnard as the original all-hog flatback version again, as a "D20" under their model number system.
They haven't made an arch-backed dread in the US since '01 (Westerly's last year of production).
As Mav mentioned you may also like a D4-12, the D4 was basically a D25 with as much bling removed as possible (not that the D25 had much to start, LOL!): No back binding, no pearloid headstock logo, no case and no gloss finish available when introduced, but exact same physical build otherwise.

aspalmer84 said:

My 2 main players are Guild D-50s... I love them... I would post a picture but I can't figure out how yet!

Click to expand...

You need to find a photo hosting site and then link to the image files from here, this site doesn't host its own images for a couple of sensible reasons:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?185122-FAQ-Posting-pictures-to-LTG
Yes we love pics around here!


LOL I also would like to have the forum send me an email notification when my posts get a reply if possible... Any advice? Thanks![/QUOTE]

Al, good info, but, FYI, you're wrong about no US-built dread 12ers... New Hartford built the G-312 in the Standard series, I think... That's a rosewood dread 12-string.

chazmo said:

Al, good info, but, FYI, you're wrong about no US-built dread 12ers... New Hartford built the G-312 in the Standard series, I think... That's a rosewood dread 12-string.

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Aha, my bad, forgot all about it, thank you!
(I just wasn't paying enough attention to New Hartford because I didn't think I'd reconcile with a couple of their build details like medium strings and open tuners)

All I know is that my 1981 D-212 has outlasted a lot of really good guitars in my house, including an F-412 and an F-212.

I still have my F212XL, but IMO it doesn't do anything a good Guild dread 12 can't do, and for me the
dreads are generally just flat out more comfortable to play.
Have had two D212's (still have one) and a D15-12, all were excellent!

Thanks for all the info. That's a lot to take in. Right now I've got the busted 1986 D212 (that is busted from shipping), a 1981 G312 (that was too loud for me but in excellent shape), and a new Gibson Hummingbird Pro 12 I picked up to try out and compare with the D212. The Gibson really is a great playing guitar and sounds nice too, but I'm a Guild guy. I'm in the process of returning the 212 that was damaged in shipping, I'm going to sell the 312 (it's in excellent condition), and I planned on taking the Gibson back to GC, but my dad says he wants it... so we will see.

the G-212 (mahogany) and the G-312 (rosewood) are 70s-80s Westerly 12-string flat/solid back dreads. I currently own a 1980 G-312 and enjoy it very much (although it it a little heavy, but nothing like Guild electrics of the time period-those are super super heavy)

aspalmer84 said:

Thanks for all the info. That's a lot to take in. Right now I've got the busted 1986 D212 (that is busted from shipping), a 1981 G312 (that was too loud for me but in excellent shape), and a new Gibson Hummingbird Pro 12 I picked up to try out and compare with the D212. The Gibson really is a great playing guitar and sounds nice too, but I'm a Guild guy.

Click to expand...

Ah, ok, that gives us a little better insight to you knowledge of the brand and build quality in general.
If you're not locked up on spruce tops, one of the most exotic formulas is the one Bonneville mentioned in the D15-12, a 12-string version of the arch-back 'hog-topped dreadnought formula first seen in the D25 for a short period from about '73 to '75.
The D15 and D17 came along as "reboots" of that formula in the '80's and had 12-string versions as well.
In fact, looking at the s/n charts, it looks like they made those in a couple of year period ('84-'85) when the D212 was out of production before coming back as the D2512.
Apparently the all-hog archback formula had fairly limited appeal, but just wanted to point out their existence.

PM sent. I might be willing to part with my '81 D-212, in my ongoing effort to reduce the number of guitars I have as I edge closer to retirement.

Oooh, good luck guys. Neal, are you making room for something else?!?!

Chaz, I am making room for other things in my life, aside from guitars. I do not need 15. After I retire, I hope to travel extensively, and 5 will probably too many at that point.

It is a sad thing to look at a guitar in your rack, a really nice guitar that someone else would love to get their hands on, and realize that you haven't played it in some time.

I recently acquired a Rockbridge Slope dread (Adi over mahogany) that felt like an old friend the first time I placed it in my lap. Perfect neck, perfect size, and perfect tonal characteristics for me. And it was made about 7 blocks from where I live, so it has "home court advantage".

The Rockbridge and my F-50 are getting most of my attention, with a '49 Gibson J-50 a close third. Some really good guitars just sit there, waiting...

FWIW, I will be posting for sale on Reverb a player-grade 1960 D-18 this weekend. If anyone is interested in it for around $2000, you know where to find me!

Good deal. I'll check those out. Sounds interesting.