General acoustic question

Toby, I can't really add to what's already been said about your options.

Did you say the guitar was a '50 model? Personally, I think my advice would lean more toward sentiment if it were -- i.e., fix it with the intent to keep it. Even if you don't play it much. If it's a pre-war, I would think differently about the instrument and probably be more inclined to sell it and get the most for it as those seem to be worth quite a lot of money. And, for that, I would recommend sending it to Nazareth.

Good luck with your choices, Take your time making your decision(s).

I only read through this quickly but did not get any indication if the luthier who looked at the guitar is actually an experienced and specialized Martin guitar restoration expert, or just a regular guitar tech who mainly fixes electrics and the occasional MiC acoustic. I certainly would entrust a special instrument like this only to a renowned expert.

If it was mine I’d repair and keep it in the family. That is definitely an heirloom piece. I would also recommend getting at least 1-2 more opinions from a luthier with vintage Martin experience. Don’t rush into it.

A new saddle and maybe nut is not uncommon with a neck reset, but maybe some of the work can be staggered over time like the frets and bridge reglue.

If the neck and frets are being done would it make sense to add a dual action truss rod for future tweaks?

HeyMikey said:

If it was mine I’d repair and keep it in the family.

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I guess I'm just not that sentimental. My dad played a 1939 Epiphone Zenith for years. The action was horrible, but this was pre-internet, and who knew about setups? It did have an adjustable saddle. Then my brother and I got him a new Yamaha, which had much better action. Much later, I got him a Gibson Les Paul Studio - much easier to play, and he's kind of a swing/jazz player anyway, so he's in 7th Heaven. Meanwhile I absconded with his Zenith and had some minor work done on it. But my guitar storage is limited, so after a while I put it on the block. The Zenith is NOT a collectible and barely worth a few hundred bucks. I think it cost him $35 used back in the late 40s. But I found an eager buyer and got $900 for it. Compared to even the Epiphone Masterbilts I had at the time, the Zenith was a lousy guitar! I really don't need anything "to remember him by." The sucker is stil kicking and playing his LP at age 96!

parker_knoll said:

My question is: is this worth it? This is probably the most valuable thing I own (I don't own a house), and I don't feel great about pulling out a set of original frets which are unworn (my dad didn't play it much), original saddle etc. Despite the sentimental value, I could sell it and buy a much cheaper but still excellent playable acoustic (e.g. a Guild).

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One more reminder here that there are 2 kinds of value, "sentimental" and "market" and the 2 aren't always the same.

parker_knoll said:

Do you think it's a better idea to spend the money making it playable or to sell it as it is as an all original piece? Which would have a greater effect on the value?

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In general "Absolute originality" in collectibles is more highly valued than "restored", but there are a lot of gray areas.
An impeccably restored piece could outvalue an unrestored original in poor condition.
I see cars as being very similar to guitars in that regard.
For "equal condition" the unrestored original will almost invariably fetch a better price than a full restoration, BUT:
Now there's the "utility" question:
An unrestored piece may have great value to a museum but no value to an owner who actually wants to use the item.

So my gut feeling is that if you actually want to play this instrument, then the cost of restoration is recovered in utility and sentimental value to you.
But I seriously doubt you'll recover as much as you invest in restoration cost if you're simply hoping to enhance market value right now.
It almost never works.
And really serious collectors prefer to have an "unmolested" piece to start with.
If it was left to me I think I'd try to figure out what my Dad'd do if he was deciding whether or not to leave it to me, or sell it and buy something he thought I'd enjoy more.
:friendly_wink:

Cougar:
Great story.

I never understood collecting. I was once shown a very early Les Paul unplayable due to worn frets. I said it will be a very nice guitar once refretted. Was told a fret job would halve it's value.

So if the neck is bowed it will need a compression refret, then the neck angle may result in a neck reset. The bridge, if showing signs of becoming loose, or the intonation is off, may as well be addressed. A new saddle is a necessary part of a refret IMHO. So yes, it's some work there. The guitar is worth the investment.

I think as time goes by, you will gravitate more toward acoustic. Seems to be a likely trend from what I can tell, until some age malady hits and you can only play light strings. I vote fix it and enjoy it.

adorshki said:

If it was left to me I think I'd try to figure out what my Dad'd do if he was deciding whether or not to leave it to me, or sell it and buy something he thought I'd enjoy more.
:friendly_wink:

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This is a good angle. My dad's actually still alive but a bit gaga

parker_knoll said:

This is a good angle. My dad's actually still alive but a bit gaga

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Radio GAGA
Lady GAGA

being Finn and Finnish being my mother tongue I can always hide behind curtain of innocency, when not exactly understanding some of the finesses of foreign languages like english, that I studied full three years one hour per week.

SO - please explain all meanings of GAGA

And NO! - "Google it" will not do.


thx

Cougar said:

I guess I'm just not that sentimental. My dad played a 1939 Epiphone Zenith for years. The action was horrible, but this was pre-internet, and who knew about setups?

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You have to remember that back in the pre-electric days, a high action was good, because you could slam on those strings and get good and loud, to cut through the band.

Nuuska said:

being Finn and Finnish being my mother tongue I can always hide behind curtain of innocency, when not exactly understanding some of the finesses of foreign languages like english, that I studied full three years one hour per week.

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Pardon my "butt-inksi" but the general meaning is of reduced mental acuity, such as what might be expected at age 96.
Not necessarily full blown senility or Alzheimer's syndrome, but maybe a little slow to comprehend and short attention span.
It's also been used in the sense of fans over-reacting to a pop culture figure.
Like those guys from Sky Sports whose voices gush with over-excitement just to be walking the pits before a Formula One race when there's nothing to even get excited about yet.
:biggrin-new:

Br1ck said:

I never understood collecting. I was once shown a very early Les Paul unplayable due to worn frets. I said it will be a very nice guitar once refretted. Was told a fret job would halve it's value.

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Yeah it's caused me some thought over the years.
Maybe it's one reason the real value of anything is whatever a given person's willing to pay for that item on a given day.
There are different motives for ownership, and some buyers are motivated by the evidence of "original unrepaired" historical use on something that's "as built" while others like you and I see more value in extending the item's useful life with "repairs" .
I've even had a change of heart myself over the last few years, thinking for example that one day I might want to refinish the D25; but now I kind of dig the mojo.
And playability absolutely trumps any other consideration for all of 'em.
But I have to admit that in my heart of hearts I kind of secretly hoped the F65ce would become a valuable collectible over time, and I was highly motivated (still am) to keep it as close to mint as possible.
Not that the goal was as to make a profitable investment, more of a sense of pride in knowing how to pick 'em...

As an interesting aside, in terms of getting it repaired in Nazareth, since my father is the first and only owner of the guitar it should be covered by Martin's lifetime guarantee. However, when I contacted them about this they asked for a copy of the original receipt so alas we could go no further. He should have been like the owner of my 1955 Manhattan who left the store receipt nicely in the box.

Oh well. I'm surprised they are asking for the receipt, but that is their right. Anyway, best of luck!

parker_knoll said:

As an interesting aside, in terms of getting it repaired in Nazareth, since my father is the first and only owner of the guitar it should be covered by Martin's lifetime guarantee. However, when I contacted them about this they asked for a copy of the original receipt so alas we could go no further. He should have been like the owner of my 1955 Manhattan who left the store receipt nicely in the box.

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That "lifetime" guarantee isn't what it used to be. As I discovered during the process of getting the O-15 fixed, neck resets are now considered the result of normal wear and tear and are not covered.

More details in this thread.

adorshki said:

Pardon my "butt-inksi" but the general meaning is of reduced mental acuity, such as what might be expected at age 96.
Not necessarily full blown senility or Alzheimer's syndrome, but maybe a little slow to comprehend and short attention span.

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I'll add that sometimes it implies excitement to the point of incoherence - he was so gaga over Don McLean performing in town that he almost forgot to buy tickets.

gjmalcyon said:

That "lifetime" guarantee isn't what it used to be. As I discovered during the process of getting the O-15 fixed, neck resets are now considered the result of normal wear and tear and are not covered.

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So with this kind of guarantees, are we talking about the lifetime of the original owner or the lifetime of the guitar when it has deteriorated to the point of no further possible restoration?

fronobulax said:

I'll add that sometimes it implies excitement to the point of incoherence - he was so gaga over Don McLean performing in town that he almost forgot to buy tickets.

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Love the explanation - fortunately he DID remember buy tickets in time - got good seats - and McLean + band was in good vibes = now he is all GAGA over that...

(I'm adding merlin6666's post here since there is an intervening post):

[So with this kind of guarantees, are we talking about the lifetime of the original owner or the lifetime of the guitar when it has deteriorated to the point of no further possible restoration?]

I don't know and I doubt you'd get Martin to define the specific types of repairs. In our case, the pick guard crack was covered as a warranty item, the tuner replacements were covered (after some argument on my part), but the neck reset and associated work was not covered.

merlin6666 said:

So with this kind of guarantees, are we talking about the lifetime of the original owner or the lifetime of the guitar when it has deteriorated to the point of no further possible restoration?

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Much discussed. The answer is "whatever the lawyers say". Don't forget the lifetime of the corporate entity that offered the warranty since companies that go bankrupt or get sold may or may not transfer the liability for existing warranties. That said, I don't think I have ever seen or participated in a warranty discussion where a claim was made that a guitar had a "natural" lifetime and thus age or condition had an effect on the terms of the warranty. Most warranties are limited to defects in manufacturing or materials so "deterioration" would have to be attributed to one of those before a warranty claim would even be feasible. As a thought exercise, imagine a Martin (because it is still the same corporate entity) that had a celluloid pick guard and the off-gassing corroded the tuners. Would that be a defect in materials? Maybe, but maybe not, since all celluloid pick guards off-gassed "back in the day" so there is no defect in this particular material compared to what was used at the time.